Camber Curious

[jabrax]

This past weekend I participated in my 5th track day of the year. 1 beginner - 3 intermediate - 1 advanced.... No passing at NJMP monthly track days until you run Hotlaps in the expert/instructor group. I don't plan to try that group until next year after a few more advanced and some laps with instructors in the car.

I have made wheel and tire changes that have made a world of difference in the car. 285 squared mpss. Currently the car is lowered about an inch on Steeda Progressives with FRPP shocks/struts, and I would to now like to introduce the effects of camber to the mix.

I can get a nice deal for 120 bucks unlimited alignment adjustments for a year.

How much negative camber can be attained without plates? I am thinking of having the place attempt the most neg camber possible without plates, until i buy and install plates.

I have been reading that a good ratio is rears 1 degrees less (more positive) than front is optimal. Should I ask them to get the most negative (no more than -2.5) out of the from and what ever result they get, set the rear to 1 degree less?



Thanks, Jeff

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[Competition Orange]

fronts aren't really adjustable stock. You can use camber bolts, coupled with lowering springs, I was able to get -3.1 on drivers and -2.9 passenger. My front wheel offset was the limiting factor rubbing the strut and I had to dial it back to about -2.6.

 

[SteveW]

I have been reading that a good ratio is rears 1 degrees less (more positive) than front is optimal. Should I ask them to get the most negative (no more than -2.5) out of the from and what ever result they get, set the rear to 1 degree less?



Thanks, Jeff

I have made that statement a few times but have since decided that with my setup, it isn't ideal. There is a lot of compliance in the bushings in the rear suspension and I am now running only about 1/4 deg less camber in the rear than the front. That's maybe a little tight, though.

Try running the rear about half a deg lower than the front.

 

[jabrax]

I have made that statement a few times but have since decided that with my setup, it isn't ideal. There is a lot of compliance in the bushings in the rear suspension and I am now running only about 1/4 deg less camber in the rear than the front. That's maybe a little tight, though.

Try running the rear about half a deg lower than the front.

By compliance, are you referring to the movement in the suspension, that slight left to right twitch that the rear does?

 

[Plimmer]

I think -2.5 front and -1.5 rear is a good starting point. Lowering and body roll also make the camber change differently from one to the next, so next you should start reading your tire temp gradients to see which part of the tire is working hardest. That gives you clues on which direction to go next.

 

[SteveW]

By compliance, are you referring to the movement in the suspension, that slight left to right twitch that the rear does?

I haven't really felt something like that but in pics I was seeing my rear standing up straight or even going positive when cornering hard in an autox run.

Static rear camber was -2.1 and I have since increased it to -2.6.

 

[jabrax]

I think -2.5 front and -1.5 rear is a good starting point. Lowering and body roll also make the camber change differently from one to the next, so next you should start reading your tire temp gradients to see which part of the tire is working hardest. That gives you clues on which direction to go next.

I saw guys with race cars checking their temps after hotlap sessions. I will look into tools for doing that, or beg someone to use theirs :lol:

 

[Whiskey11]

I haven't really felt something like that but in pics I was seeing my rear standing up straight or even going positive when cornering hard in an autox run.

Static rear camber was -2.1 and I have since increased it to -2.6.

At stock ride height (FS guy here) and -2.2 out back, I'd agree. I went more negative precisely because the photos showed a need for it. Even now they still show a need for slightly more at stock ride height. Zeroed out the toe and the car drives just brilliantly once the tires are warm. I was told that it was a horrible idea... I was also told that running a front bar was a horrible idea... both of which proved to be wrong for me. The car drives out of a corner with a vengeance and gets into it just as well. Interestingly enough, at the first Test and Tune of the year out at Lincoln, a guy had a FLIR attachment for his iPhone. The rears were even all the way across the tread with this alignment... fronts were destroying the outer shoulders at -2.0 ish. Sucks, but that's F-Street for you.

If I ever take the car to STP, the rear will most likely end up in the -2.6 range like you have it. That's a lot of camber out back but if it needs it, it needs it. So long as straight line traction isn't completely given up.

 

[SteveW]

If I ever take the car to STP, the rear will most likely end up in the -2.6 range like you have it. That's a lot of camber out back but if it needs it, it needs it. So long as straight line traction isn't completely given up.

For how I use the car no issues on straights. That much may hurt Prosolo or drag racing, IDK, I'm not focused on that. Nats, HPDE at ORP and a local event weekend with the increased camber tell me it is an improvement from where I had been.

HPDE runs at ORP was where I noticed the most improvement. On all but one 3rd gear corner I could pretty much mat the gas from apex where earlier this year I had to modulate. It still sailed through the 4th and 5th gear turns feeling secure.

 

[hulk_smash]

I know you said without camber plate but I have -3.1F camber with Maximum Motorsport Camber Plates and NO Camber Bolts.

I was shocked. I thought -2.5 was the max.

Rear camber is -1.9. Rear is stock.

My numbers are from a track alignment setup.

I have Swift Spec R springs if that helps.

 

[mnmike59]

 

[wildcatgoal]

I can't remember my rear camber (I think -2.1 originally just to accommodate my 20x11" rear wheels with 305 tires) but my front was set to -2.1 from -1.7 originally, which basically eliminated any uncomfortable understeer from my car, aided of course by suspension you see in my sig. I was very happy with how it performed at AMP this past weekend, albeit the PZeros on OEM PP wheels seemed to get greasy if they weren't allowed to cool off for the entire gap between sessions, which was noticed mostly in the back (those tires started the day at <50% life). Much depends on how you setup your sway bars, too. I guess I don't so much care about any "tire wear from camber" (vs. toe) at this point considering how well the car handles now. Gotta pay to play...?

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