Boss manifold going on

[Dave2013M3]

How safe is it to rev the stock Coyote to 8K?

Thats a good question, I don't know to be honest. From what I gather from this forum the short block is good to 8k rpm. I would keep the rev limit to 7500-7600rpm like the Boss 302 motors.

Dave

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[Reds197]

If you don't rev past 7200 it isn't worth it. I would put in oil pump gears before I saw 7800-8000. Above 7000 it looks promising. You have to remember the next gear RPM to take advantage. That's why you rev it so high.

 

[dubster99]

Lund only made changes to the tune to cope with the imrc delete. Made no adjustments to maximize power.

 

[kris5597]

I guarantee VCT was not tuned on Lund swap. VCT tuning is time consuming, no point spending time tuning a manifold that was not staying on his car, which I understand. However, since it was a "check out the boss manifold on the 2015 GT," thorough tuning should have been done for this install. Otherwise, as we are all seeing, it was a worthless swap. VE has changed a lot with this manifold swap on this engine, VCT must be tuned to accomdate to show truly what the manifold does on the 2015 engine.

 

[Danger]

Put some tape on the bottom of that hood and make sure nothing touches.

 

[Schu]

also, not sure what worth the Lund test was at all without custom tuning for the boss manifold... didnt seem like it proved or disproved anything...

It absolutely did prove something... the s550 manifold is tuned for mid range and streetability (just look at the torque difference) while the boss gave up a little mid range for extended high/peak rpm range.

Driveability is the difference. It's up to you to decide which is more important.

 

[kris5597]

It absolutely did prove something... the s550 manifold is tuned for mid range and streetability (just look at the torque difference) while the boss gave up a little mid range for extended high/peak rpm range.

Driveability is the difference. It's up to you to decide which is more important.

Your still basing this information off of a tune that had no VCT changes. If this were a non VCT engine, I would absolutely agree. VCT is highly important when it comes to huge changes in resonance and flow of an engine. VCT can change power throughout the entire RPM range, 1000+rpm. Using Lunds graph to justify the Boss intake manifold at all rpms, unless proven that there is no power left to be tuned out, is useless.

 

[Jeffy_2010]

Subd

 

[Blk2015GT]

Your still basing this information off of a tune that had no VCT changes. If this were a non VCT engine, I would absolutely agree. VCT is highly important when it comes to huge changes in resonance and flow of an engine. VCT can change power throughout the entire RPM range, 1000+rpm. Using Lunds graph to justify the Boss intake manifold at all rpms, unless proven that there is no power left to be tuned out, is useless.

All true but just look to the 11-14 Coyote with the Boss (or a Boss 302) that was tuned. That is essentially the same engine as the 15 Coyote isn't ALL that different and closer to the Boss 302 enhancements to the 5.0. The Boss 302 made 440 (with the manifold obviously), the older Coyote made 420.

No one is getting crazy hp off just a intake manifold. I would say the 20-25hp advertised (and the Boss 302 vs earlier Coyote) is probably close to accurate, and really more important in high RPMs.

I personally couldn't see doing a manifold swap unless tracking the car since the benefits are not seen until over 6,500 RPM according to all of the dyno graphs out there.

Again, personally, I think the 2015 manifold took the best parts of the 5.0 and the Boss/CJ to get more overall power under the curve. Putting on a Boss/CJ now will open the top end, but again, I can't say I ever wind out my engine anywhere near 6500 RPM daily driving where this manifold would make any difference.

 

[UPRSteve]

Anybody know about room to install mounts after long tubes are installed? I'm wondering if I need to do both at the same time, while the headers are off.

I have done them at the same time but you can do it separately. I would recommend doing them first though.

 

[kris5597]

All true but just look to the 11-14 Coyote with the Boss (or a Boss 302) that was tuned. That is essentially the same engine as the 15 Coyote isn't ALL that different and closer to the Boss 302 enhancements to the 5.0. The Boss 302 made 440 (with the manifold obviously), the older Coyote made 420.

No one is getting crazy hp off just a intake manifold. I would say the 20-25hp advertised (and the Boss 302 vs earlier Coyote) is probably close to accurate, and really more important in high RPMs.

I personally couldn't see doing a manifold swap unless tracking the car since the benefits are not seen until over 6,500 RPM according to all of the dyno graphs out there.

Again, personally, I think the 2015 manifold took the best parts of the 5.0 and the Boss/CJ to get more overall power under the curve. Putting on a Boss/CJ now will open the top end, but again, I can't say I ever wind out my engine anywhere near 6500 RPM daily driving where this manifold would make any difference.

I do agree with you, the 2015 coyote is extremely similar to the Boss engine, shares a lot of the same parts. However, one thing everyone is not considering, the 2015 engine has a more aggressive intake cam, where this manifold needs it. The 2015 has 13mm of lift on the intake and exhaust cam, where the 11-14 had 11mm intake and 12mm exhaust and the Boss had 12mm intake and 13mm exhaust. That extra lift is HUGE. The 2015 intake cam specs match up to the Cobra Jet intake cam.

So lets just say you install the Boss manifold and it doesn't lose any power from 1000-6000, however you gain between 30-40whp from 6500-7500, I would say that is absolutely worth it to guys who want to rev that high. Whether your on the street, drag strip, or road racing, you have a much faster car. I am willing to bet with the Boss manifold on the 2015 with the cam angles bracketed, you WILL gain power, and if you do lose mid range, it will be very very minimal.

Your changing runner length, plenum volume, and the flow characters of the intake track with swapping a manifold. The tune you run with one, is going to be completely different than the other, VCT wise. I've seen this before and its a huge difference. From what I have seen, most tuners just tune ignition and fuel. Many don't mess with VCT, so it's hard for me to justify what has actually been tuned. Every personal vehicle I have tuned, I tune the VCT, that's where power is. You change VE so much with it, tuners either don't understand it, or feel it's not worth the time. None would probably admit it.

 

[kris5597]

My apologies to OP, there have been many threads created for the discussion of swapping intake manifolds that we have both been apart of. I am just trying to provide good information that validates this swap. Unfortunately no one has proven this as of yet. If the OP doesn't I eventually will.

 

[Dustin GI]

Kris, I appreciate your comments as they are very valid here. Have no fear my friend, all the parts are on the way to my house as we speak. I am thinking inside of a month I will have this installed and and up and running, unless USPS goes on strike...

As far as using this to it's potential, unlike the masses on the forum, I have the autobahn. A daily drive for me is hitting some back roads with very little cars/people, I live in a somewhat rural area and road racing is very common. On the weekends I skydive and the drive is primarily on the autobahn which has it's unrestricted sections, nothing like cruising 140+ for 7-10 miles at a time, occasionally you see that E63/M4/RS5, I need to keep up with them.
I know, why not go FI? I don't know, probably because I miss my e92 M3 and the glorious sound that engine made. This one should be close soon.

 

[UPRSteve]

Good luck with the install. I know our UPR motor mounts will help you out!!

 

[dubster99]

I miss my 9k redline on my old s2k. I think I'm gonna go long tubes and UPR mounts, then boss. I just need to find someone that can tune it right for the boss.

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