Dealership Trust

[Brian@BMVK]

I’m only willing to use dealer for warranty work if the parts are thousands of dollars. Dealers are slow, inconvenient, and often incompetent. Sometimes I wonder if it is on purpose.

This.

The only repair I've had done not by me is my transmission replacement, and it wasn't at a Ford dealer, it was at the shop I go to for alignments, and with who I am friends with both the service manager and the tech that works on my car. They do great work.

Also, a lot of you guys are truly gluttons for punishment, continually buying Ford or other brands that have problem after problem. I love the car, but some of the things that broke/have issues are completely inexcusable, and having seen how they engineer and cheap out on the vehicle integration, it's my first and last.

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[Ginger1]

I just brought ours into a chain place for an oil change. The last time I got "the works" packages - on our two different cars at two different dealers, they both "forgot" to rotate the tires. And it took all freaking day. And the Mustang had a "bit" of oil dripped on the engine cover...So I can totally understand the rationale of just doing it yourself or avoiding the dealer. And I know I could change my own oil but I'm too fat and old to be climbing UNDER the car at this point.

 

[Daryl333]

Why am I like this?......My battery was dying on my 2018 350. I purchased the new 350 in April of '20 so that started the warranty clock. I know I could have taken it to a dealership and received a new battery for free. However, I purchased a new one and put it in myself.......Am I crazy????

I don't have a relationship with any local dealership as I purchased my 350 from an out of town dealership. I just don't trust them in general......

I'm in Canada and my battery went under warranty from a high volume Ford dealership. Simple right?
But not so simple they said might be due to something else. Dealer wanted me to bring my car in for an extensive diagnostic evaluation to find the cause. After doing a bit of research found that batteries DO just go in these cars. I don't trust dealers after past mishaps and said no, bought a battery installed it and all is fine. I can see their point but I didn't want to have my car at a dealer and with no loaner. Price was around $200 CAD so it wasn't worth the time a chance of who knows what going wrong at the dealer.
Just my .02

 

[Lancaster]

Crikey, my car is due to for its first service shortly and I’m beginning to worry what state it will come back in! However, my view is that I have to give them a chance to get it right. If they don’t then it won’t go back there, as simple as that. Mind you, the writing is already slightly on the wall as when I collected it from this dealer after purchase it wasn’t cleaned properly and it had to go back in a week later for a full valet! Still, they did a decent job second time round and of course this was nothing to do with the mechanics in the workshop.

Ford aren’t alone though. I’ve owned Mercedes, BMWs and other more mainstream makes and I can’t say I’ve ever been wowed by a dealership experience. There is always something to darken your mood. Thankfully for me to date it’s never been anything too drastic, but still, your car is often the second most expensive thing your buy in your life so you have the right for it to be treated with care.

 

[fmc_smt]

I took my 2019 Bullitt in for an alignment after I installed LTH and had the entire cradle out of the car for suspension mods. I asked the service writer if the person doing the alignment normally takes the cars for a test drive afterward and he said that they do. I told him to please make a note on the ticket that I did not want anyone test driving the car. I did not trust them to take it out on a test drive. My thoughts were; I’ll take it on a test drive myself and if it doesn’t feel right, I’ll come back and let you guys know. It’s probably not every day that the techs get FBO cars in there for service and when they do, they probably think Ferris Bueller. No thank you sir; I’ll take it from here.

Did you talk to the tech? Some of us techs drive this set up everyday . Sorry I'm a tech at a dealer, have been for 30+ years . My daily is FI at over 750 rwhp . Maybe you all should losen up and ask your service advisor if you can speak with the guys actually working on your car .

 

[NGOT8R]

Did you talk to the tech? Some of us techs drive this set up everyday . Sorry I'm a tech at a dealer, have been for 30+ years . My daily is FI at over 750 rwhp . Maybe you all should losen up and ask your service advisor if you can speak with the guys actually working on your car .

No, I didn’t talk to the tech. I don’t doubt that there are techs out there that own/drive high hp cars. I also believe that many of them have been properly trained and know how to do good work, but knowing and doing are entirely different. I‘ve personally given dealerships several chances to work on my cars and have almost always been dissatisfied with the outcome. If you’re one of the good techs, I take my hat off to you sir. Unfortunately, the lazy techs, who couldn’t care less about doing their best, create distrust between customers and themselves. It’s because of this, that I’ve learned to do as much of my own work as possible.

 

[ctandc72]

A lot of it has to do with the culture of the dealership itself. So many small to mid-sized dealerships have been bough out or absorbed by large auto groups (that own multiple dealerships / multiple makes etc) that of course things happen that negatively effect service and customer satisfaction.

I was in the car business years ago. I have good friends who have been and some whom are still in the business (business, sales, parts and service side) and I've heard some stories about management and ownership that a lot of you probably wouldn't believe are true.

Think about the service writers and the service managers. These are the "first line" interaction with customers. The entire experience can live or die based on this interaction. Now realize that most of the service writers (and in some case service managers) are NOT technicians. This effects a customer's experience with service more than most people probably realize.

Service writer schedules jobs for techs with not enough gap between jobs. So that 10am appointment? The service writer only gave the tech an hour and a half to finish the 8:30am job - but the job is a 2 hour or longer job. Happens all the time. Who gets the blame?

"Sorry sir / ma'am, the technicians are backed up today."

Yeah, they're backed up because the management pushing service quotas and wait times for appointments (and other metrics for service that don't always agree with reality) are pushing service writers to leave customers with unrealistic expectations.

This effects more than you know behind the scenes. A customer schedules an oil change at 8:30am. He is waiting for the car. When he comes to the counter that morning he asks the service writer "Can they rotate / balance the tires as well and can they take a look at ..." Most times the service writer says "Sure."

Now the entire schedule for the day is effected.

Then you have cars that are being waited on for jobs versus cars being dropped off. So if a customer is waiting on a car, there job might be pushed by the service manager and the car that's sitting there waits.

Now look at the different experience levels of technicians.

In reality, the tech changing your oil or rotating / balancing your tires is likely not of the same level of experience / skill as the tech doing more complex (thus more expensive / more profitable) jobs.

As former tech - you want to get a good idea of a dealership's culture in the service department? Stand outside the shop and watch the attitude of the technicians. That will tell you a lot.

I'm not accusing anyone on this thread or anywhere of this - but attitude matters. One of my good friends started as a tech with a BMW dealership. Then went to Porsche. Then service manager, then started his own shop that specializes in BMW, Mercedes, Porsche etc. All his techs are former dealer techs. Some of the stories he has told me over the years about customer interactions at the dealership are absolutely ridiculous.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[fmc_smt]

A lot of it has to do with the culture of the dealership itself. So many small to mid-sized dealerships have been bough out or absorbed by large auto groups (that own multiple dealerships / multiple makes etc) that of course things happen that negatively effect service and customer satisfaction.

I was in the car business years ago. I have good friends who have been and some whom are still in the business (business, sales, parts and service side) and I've heard some stories about management and ownership that a lot of you probably wouldn't believe are true.

Think about the service writers and the service managers. These are the "first line" interaction with customers. The entire experience can live or die based on this interaction. Now realize that most of the service writers (and in some case service managers) are NOT technicians. This effects a customer's experience with service more than most people probably realize.

Service writer schedules jobs for techs with not enough gap between jobs. So that 10am appointment? The service writer only gave the tech an hour and a half to finish the 8:30am job - but the job is a 2 hour or longer job. Happens all the time. Who gets the blame?

"Sorry sir / ma'am, the technicians are backed up today."

Yeah, they're backed up because the management pushing service quotas and wait times for appointments (and other metrics for service that don't always agree with reality) are pushing service writers to leave customers with unrealistic expectations.

This effects more than you know behind the scenes. A customer schedules an oil change at 8:30am. He is waiting for the car. When he comes to the counter that morning he asks the service writer "Can they rotate / balance the tires as well and can they take a look at ..." Most times the service writer says "Sure."

Now the entire schedule for the day is effected.

Then you have cars that are being waited on for jobs versus cars being dropped off. So if a customer is waiting on a car, there job might be pushed by the service manager and the car that's sitting there waits.

Now look at the different experience levels of technicians.

In reality, the tech changing your oil or rotating / balancing your tires is likely not of the same level of experience / skill as the tech doing more complex (thus more expensive / more profitable) jobs.

As former tech - you want to get a good idea of a dealership's culture in the service department? Stand outside the shop and watch the attitude of the technicians. That will tell you a lot.

I'm not accusing anyone on this thread or anywhere of this - but attitude matters. One of my good friends started as a tech with a BMW dealership. Then went to Porsche. Then service manager, then started his own shop that specializes in BMW, Mercedes, Porsche etc. All his techs are former dealer techs. Some of the stories he has told me over the years about customer interactions at the dealership are absolutely ridiculous.

Just my 2 cents.

Well said , had to print that out and leave a copy for our service writers . Nothing like stirring the pot first thing in the morning .

 

[460Fred]

A lot of it has to do with the culture of the dealership itself. So many small to mid-sized dealerships have been bough out or absorbed by large auto groups (that own multiple dealerships / multiple makes etc) that of course things happen that negatively effect service and customer satisfaction.

I was in the car business years ago. I have good friends who have been and some whom are still in the business (business, sales, parts and service side) and I've heard some stories about management and ownership that a lot of you probably wouldn't believe are true.

Think about the service writers and the service managers. These are the "first line" interaction with customers. The entire experience can live or die based on this interaction. Now realize that most of the service writers (and in some case service managers) are NOT technicians. This effects a customer's experience with service more than most people probably realize.

Service writer schedules jobs for techs with not enough gap between jobs. So that 10am appointment? The service writer only gave the tech an hour and a half to finish the 8:30am job - but the job is a 2 hour or longer job. Happens all the time. Who gets the blame?

"Sorry sir / ma'am, the technicians are backed up today."

Yeah, they're backed up because the management pushing service quotas and wait times for appointments (and other metrics for service that don't always agree with reality) are pushing service writers to leave customers with unrealistic expectations.

This effects more than you know behind the scenes. A customer schedules an oil change at 8:30am. He is waiting for the car. When he comes to the counter that morning he asks the service writer "Can they rotate / balance the tires as well and can they take a look at ..." Most times the service writer says "Sure."

Now the entire schedule for the day is effected.

Then you have cars that are being waited on for jobs versus cars being dropped off. So if a customer is waiting on a car, there job might be pushed by the service manager and the car that's sitting there waits.

Now look at the different experience levels of technicians.

In reality, the tech changing your oil or rotating / balancing your tires is likely not of the same level of experience / skill as the tech doing more complex (thus more expensive / more profitable) jobs.

As former tech - you want to get a good idea of a dealership's culture in the service department? Stand outside the shop and watch the attitude of the technicians. That will tell you a lot.

I'm not accusing anyone on this thread or anywhere of this - but attitude matters. One of my good friends started as a tech with a BMW dealership. Then went to Porsche. Then service manager, then started his own shop that specializes in BMW, Mercedes, Porsche etc. All his techs are former dealer techs. Some of the stories he has told me over the years about customer interactions at the dealership are absolutely ridiculous.

Just my 2 cents.

I work with dealerships all the time. I deal with owners, service managers, service writers and techs.
What was stated above is 100% true. It can be a real cluster if the pressure is on. The pressure starts at the top and trickles down.
Anytime money is involved, unless you are willing to do the right thing, corners get cut.
BTW...good techs are hard to come by right now. Dealerships are so busy they cannot wait for that special guy to be hired. It‘s a pressure cooker 80% of the time.
I left a pressure business that was 365 about 14 years ago. Probably added ten years to my life the moment I left.

 

[ctandc72]

I work with dealerships all the time. I deal with owners, service managers, service writers and techs.
What was stated above is 100% true. It can be a real cluster if the pressure is on. The pressure starts at the top and trickles down.
Anytime money is involved, unless you are willing to do the right thing, corners get cut.
BTW...good techs are hard to come by right now. Dealerships are so busy they cannot wait for that special guy to be hired. It‘s a pressure cooker 80% of the time.
I left a pressure business that was 365 about 14 years ago. Probably added ten years to my life the moment I left.

The demand for technicians is ridiculous right now. The service trades are hurting as well. I find it ironic, and at times amusing, that most people think lumber etc is more expensive because there isn't enough supply. Not realizing that SUPPLY has to GET to where it's in DEMAND to be considered supply. Like the pipeline "shutdown" - where even before the "shortage" - tanker trucks were sitting idle because distributors didn't have the drivers to drive them.

Buddy of mine - his kid dropped out of college after Freshman year. His mom is a teacher - this was a big deal. He's always been a bit of gearhead. That was 4-5 years ago? He's a diesel tech - my buddy said he helped him with his taxes a while back. Under 25 and he made over $100K. GOOD techs who don't shy away from the demand and the hours can make good money.

 

[cmxPPL219]

There are a lot of great points in this thread from both sides, and I'll add a few to the mix, considering how many people I know working in dealers, especially as techs:

Flat Rate and Warranty/Recall Work - There is an age-old debate at this point on the merits of the flat rate system for techs in the industry, so won't get into flat rate vs salary - however, ontop of some jobs that you can barely beat book that are customer pay, when you get to the warranty or recall tickets, the time on those jobs is so ridiculously short that it makes it almost impossible to complete some of those jobs by the stated time AND do a quality job.

Couple that with some OEMs frankly having a crap ton more recall and warranty issues than others to deal with, you have amazing techs that may want to do a great job, but are constantly fighting to just get the job done and ship it; or, make sure it's done right, with care and quality, but lose your shirt on the ticket. This is why certain dealers for certain OEMs at this point have more of a bad rap, and the comments previously about trying to look at the service dept morale, are much lower at certain brand dealers than others - in general.

The issue is the industry incentivizes speed over quality, despite what they say, and techs are trying to balance both. Even some master techs that have been around and know the best way to efficiently get certain jobs done, can barely beat the warranty/recall stated times - this is how you know something isn't right.

You have techs that have invested time into training, and $$$$ into tools and as an OEM, you've justified x Customer pay time, but now, if it's warranty or recall, I have to lose my shirt on the job? You better believe that's gonna piss people off.

None of this has any benefits. It doesn't benefit the OEM, the dealer, the tech, or the customer, or the damn car being serviced.

Now, are all the above an excuse for shoddy work, dinged up, scratched up cars, oil spilled all over the place, etc. during a service visit? Absolutely not - there are a lot of competency issues and attention-to-detail issues that need to get sorted out. Some folks, frankly, should not be techs and should not be touching cars with a 100ft pole, and this kind of nonsense is also another reason customers avoid dealers - including myself.

However, there is a new bill I believe, being introduced in Illinois that will make it so that warranty work is paid the same as customer pay, and I hear it's gaining traction. This will not fix the world's issues, but it's great start, especially if it propagates throughout the industry.

 

[cmxPPL219]

My takeaway is that dealership service departments are set up to meet a mediocre level of service - mostly fine for most things you need done on the commuter car you don’t care about,

They're setup to push out the most jobs as quickly as possible to maximize profit, which leads to a lot of the issues being expressed here

 

[cmxPPL219]

I just don't like that they cut corners and the few techs that do not, it seems like when I finally find one, he is gone by next time I go back.

From what I've seen, the good ones leave the stores where the service dept is a crap show, and the environment is toxic (primadonnas in the shop, people would be amazed at the drama some guys create) and nothing else is prioritized (i.e., quality) over speed, and they leave to seek a better store within the OEM or even another OEM, or go to an indy shop.

 

[Bluelightning]

I rarely take my car into the dealer for anything as I was a tech before I became an accountant. The only time I do take it in if it is something under warranty that I don't feel like doing myself. Most of my issue is with the scheduling. Make an appointment for Monday at 10am, and they still haven't looked at it by Friday. My dealer has loaners for owners, so not usually a big deal, but frustrating.

When I do take it in I always talk to the tech so he can hear my concerns from me, and not the service writer.

I took my Whippled 18 in a little while back for a leaking pinion seal, and the first thing the service writer told me was that it probably wouldn't be covered due to the supercharger.... I was like I'm fine paying for any damage that a supercharger might cause, but it didn't cause a bad seal on the pinion with 6K miles on the car.... They covered it, but when I got it back, they tried to charge me 3 hours labor to R&R my aftermarket exhaust.... I called bs, and asked to talk to the tech to see why he added that. He didn't, the service manager did for some reason. My exhaust was welded together, and came off in one piece like factory, so was no harder to deal with. Service manager was claiming it was harder and more time consuming for the tech due to having to line it up and adjust the clamps due to it being aftermarket. The tech told him no it wasn't because I had welded it like factory. They ended up taking the charge off, but you have to pay attention instead of blindly paying because it's on the bill.

 

[460Fred]

From what I've seen, the good ones leave the stores where the service dept is a crap show, and the environment is toxic (primadonnas in the shop, people would be amazed at the drama some guys create) and nothing else is prioritized (i.e., quality) over speed, and they leave to seek a better store within the OEM or even another OEM, or go to an indy shop.

And with all the technological updates in most cars, independent shops will fade away. I’ve got a guy that I trust 100% that came from a high end dealership. He’s been in business a few years now but sees the writing on the walls. I’m thinking he’ll be of retirement age around the time the industry changes completely.

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