Anyone run locked out VCT?

[honeybadger]

It'll be fine - it's not like you have to parallel park your race car on a steep hill or something. At worst, you might need some pit crew to push it and get it rolling until you can engage the clutch.

And think of the upside - with less power, you'll have less trouble with overheating. It's all good.

Ha! I'll be like the IMSA cars where you have to be at 3km RPM and clutch dump to ensure you don't stall it. hehehe

As I said earlier, your particular build and your particular use, you're probably one of the few people best suited to do an N/A elimination of the phasers.

We shall see. It'll be interesting to see the graphs and see what it's like on the track.

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[honeybadger]

and y’all thought I wouldn’t follow through. I commit to my dumbass ideas all the way until the end. Dyno will tell the real story. Cota in a month

 

[Cobra Jet]

I’m surprised no one has brought up the Coyote Cobra Jet, which did have locked out VCT.

I dug through my “tech stash” , found and attached the pdf (Coyote Cobra Jet) article that may be beneficial to the subject matter. Mind you that it’s the only article available that discusses the design and build of the 2013 Coyote Cobra Jet, but much of the tech can be used in other Coyote engine variants.


This article from Ford Muscle and Authored by Don Creason, discusses AEM’s Coyote Cobra Jet VCT tests with and without lockout (good tech):
https://www.fordmuscle.com/news/how-much-power-does-coyote-vct-account-for-aem-answers-the-question/

 

[Cobra Jet]

I’m also going to include this thread I had posted a while back regarding the Coyote’s Copperhead system, but in this thread, my second post also contained a very good doc about the Coyote VCT system:

https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/copperhead-coyote’s-electronic-control-system.148798/

 

[svttim]

Missed this one. We electronically locked (programming) my 4.6 based 5 liter to meet class power requirements so that I could race in two classes in NASA. It was effective, lost 40 RWHP at the position they were locked in.

 

[REVolutionist]

Obviously my application/use for my car is completely different than HB's, but I'd do everything I could to keep the VCT on the car. I've suggested to him that he try using MMR's lightweight cam phaser plates first to try and help the phasers have an easier time living at high RPM's due to reduced rotational mass. MMR claims a 1lb reduction in rotational mass between the 4 plates and I believe it after holding both in my respective hands.

Here is a picture of my motor with them installed for reference:

In regards to heads, yes, I had FED port mine since they are only about an hour drive from my place here in Dallas.

They did a REALLY bad-ass job on them and I am super anxious to get this thing fired up and see what kind of power I can make.

If I understand you correctly MMR offers an improved solution for continuing the use of VCT? Do you have a part number for those pieces?

 

[bauern]

If I understand you correctly MMR offers an improved solution for continuing the use of VCT? Do you have a part number for those pieces?

https://www.modularmotorsportsracin...e=product_info&cPath=4_30_57&products_id=1113

 

[honeybadger]

I’m also going to include this thread I had posted a while back regarding the Coyote’s Copperhead system, but in this thread, my second post also contained a very good doc about the Coyote VCT system:

https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/copperhead-coyote’s-electronic-control-system.148798/

This is awesome info. Thanks for sharing!

I had seen the Ford Muscle article before. My big question from it is that they were light on the details of where things were locked out. The power curves to me look like they didn't lock out the cams in a specific position to optimize torque or hp, but just left in a neutral position. But who knows.

Missed this one. We electronically locked (programming) my 4.6 based 5 liter to meet class power requirements so that I could race in two classes in NASA. It was effective, lost 40 RWHP at the position they were locked in.

Was that optimized for peak power or for a specific part of the power band? From what I've been told, I should expect a hit to average power and torque, but peaks shouldn't be much different as long as they were degree'd correctly. Mine are degree'd for 6,000 and above with peak power in mind, so hopefully it works out.

If I understand you correctly MMR offers an improved solution for continuing the use of VCT? Do you have a part number for those pieces?

Pro tip: The phasers have reverse threads to take apart. So make sure you tighten to loosen them. The bolts snap pretty easy. Ask me how I know.

 

[JAJ]

... Mine are degree'd for 6,000 and above with peak power in mind, so hopefully it works out...

What are the actual degrees you've got? Just curious...

 

[honeybadger]

What are the actual degrees you've got? Just curious...

Exhaust are 120 and intakes are 112

 

[JAJ]

Exhaust are 120 and intakes are 112

Hmmm... thanks for posting - it hadn't occurred to me that the actual cam degrees (measured with a dial indicator and a degree wheel) were going to be a challenge to translate into the corresponding phaser settings. I'll see if I can figure out what they are. I'm curious to see how they match with the Optimum Power phaser settings from earlier in this thread.

 

[honeybadger]

Hmmm... thanks for posting - it hadn't occurred to me that the actual cam degrees (measured with a dial indicator and a degree wheel) were going to be a challenge to translate into the corresponding phaser settings. I'll see if I can figure out what they are. I'm curious to see how they match with the Optimum Power phaser settings from earlier in this thread.

Please do share if you find out. From what I read, it looks like the 4* of cam adjustment forward/backward (8 in total) translates to 50* of valve timing adjustment? We're definitely out of my area of knowledge and I haven't had the mental bandwidth to really dig in, yet. So won't be surprised if I'm way off

 

[JAJ]

It's a bit complex because cams turn at 1/2 the rate of the crank, so you have to keep the numbers straight. That said, "valve timing" is measured at the crank, so a cam set at 120 degrees the valve has (usually) 0.050" of lift when the crank is 120 degrees before top dead center.

The challenge with the VCT phasers is that they add or subtract timing from the "baseline" timing when the phaser is set to zero. Ford's service manual doesn't say what the cam timing with the phaser at zero is, so there's no way (easily) to translate a phaser setting of, say, +10 into an exact number of degrees BTDC. Maybe @bauern knows.

 

[svttim]

Min was optimized for peak power.

 

[bauern]

I don't know the numbers for the Voodoo cams, but below are the numbers for the Gen2 Coyote cams to give some idea of what they may be since the Voodoo used the same phasers originally. With the Voodoo having a little more duration, you can infer a few degrees difference.

Here is some good data.

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