Anyone run c16 or q16???

[VicRattlehead]

I've tuned a few cars on C16, worked well but it is expensive. I have had same/better results with 93 and RGA.

http://www.maperformance.com/race-gas-race-fuel-concentrate.html

The fastest stock turbo Ecoboost Mustangs are using the RGA above.

What's the ratio for that rga stuff?

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[m4udin]

I've been trying to decide between MS109 and Extreme Unleaded for when I get a track tune. I was just going to use the RGA but I've had quite a few people tell me to just use race gas instead of additives or octane boosters.

 

[Tune+]

What didn't you like about ms109? The race gas additive doesn't seem to be much more than rebranded torco from what I could find on it

Race-Gas is made locally to me and he paid a scientist in Colorado to develop the product. It isn't a rebranded anything. The Torco stuff doesn't list out its contents at all for me to compare. I went to their website and it looks like they just uploaded their old Angelfire website, it was made by a child lol.

MS109 is expensive, and you can't mix it. I have mixed different fuels from VP and FTW over the years but I find RGA to be the best additive (which I normally hate) and it is the easiest to use.

If I fill up a Mustang with 93, and add 2 cans of RGA it comes out to be $6.50 a gallon, which is much cheaper than MS109 at $15.50 a gallon, and c16 at $16.50 a gallon. MS109 is only 101 octane where RGA nets me around 104.

 

[tittermary]

What didn't you like about ms109? The race gas additive doesn't seem to be much more than rebranded torco from what I could find on it

inconvenient, not enough octane it's kind of touchy not a lot of margin of error with turbo car, doesn't make as much power and it's expensive as hell. At this point the bigger question is what don't you like about racegas? a product you haven't even used as far as I can tell?

 

[Wera750]

Race-Gas is made locally to me and he paid a scientist in Colorado to develop the product. It isn't a rebranded anything. The Torco stuff doesn't list out its contents at all for me to compare. I went to their website and it looks like they just uploaded their old Angelfire website, it was made by a child lol.

MS109 is expensive, and you can't mix it. I have mixed different fuels from VP and FTW over the years but I find RGA to be the best additive (which I normally hate) and it is the easiest to use.

If I fill up a Mustang with 93, and add 2 cans of RGA it comes out to be $6.50 a gallon, which is much cheaper than MS109 at $15.50 a gallon, and c16 at $16.50 a gallon. MS109 is only 101 octane where RGA nets me around 104.

So you use 4-6 ounces per gallon?

 

[tittermary]

I've been trying to decide between MS109 and Extreme Unleaded for when I get a track tune. I was just going to use the RGA but I've had quite a few people tell me to just use race gas instead of additives or octane boosters.

unless those other people are tuning your car ignore them, at the end of the day who ever tunes your car will tell you what they want to use.

 

[EcoSwag1990]

I've used ms109 before and it felt great but it is a lot more expensive (about $13/gallon here). I haven't tried racegas concentrate before mainly because it just seemed too good to be true that it would be that cheap, raise octane that much, and have no drawbacks besides maybe orange spark plugs. There isn't much research on what effects it has on your engine from what I could find but my tuner recommended against it. That being said if only using it a couple times a year it probably is a good option

 

[tittermary]

I've used ms109 before and it felt great but it is a lot more expensive (about $13/gallon here). I haven't tried racegas concentrate before mainly because it just seemed too good to be true that it would be that cheap, raise octane that much, and have no drawbacks besides maybe orange spark plugs. There isn't much research on what effects it has on your engine from what I could find but my tuner recommended against it. That being said if only using it a couple times a year it probably is a good option

put some in log some runs and have your tuner look at it, no problem I'm sure after that he will be ok with using it. truly it's not rocket science . I'm sure it's somewhat similar to torco and people having been using that shit for years to no ill effect.

 

[Tune+]

Locals have been using it in their car for over 3 years. There is a guy that buys 3 boxes at a time (12 cans) and it is all he runs in his truck. He has had zero problems, and I suggested that he just change his plugs every 10k.

 

[Tune+]

I've used ms109 before and it felt great but it is a lot more expensive (about $13/gallon here). I haven't tried racegas concentrate before mainly because it just seemed too good to be true that it would be that cheap, raise octane that much, and have no drawbacks besides maybe orange spark plugs. There isn't much research on what effects it has on your engine from what I could find but my tuner recommended against it. That being said if only using it a couple times a year it probably is a good option

That is a sign of someone that doesn't like to try anything new. I try anything and everything, as long as I know for a FACT it is going to harm the car. He is going off no facts, and just isn't willing to try anything. I personally have proven it's effectiveness on multiple occasions (See exhibit 11.73, 11.80, and 12.1(MT)).

 

[tittermary]

Dave:

Good question. I will give you the short answer.

Accelerate and RACE-GAS are designed to do different things. Our product is designed specifically to replace distilled racing fuel. In order to accomplish this we have to chemically do 3 things:
1) Raise the AKI (m+r/2) octane as high as 107
2) Increase the chemical / BTU energy of the base fuel to equal that of racing fuel
3) Increase the oxygen content of the fuel to promote a more efficient burn

Item 1 Accelerate does well. Numbers 2 and 3 Torco doesn’t do. RACE-GAS is the only product on the market to do these three things. That is why we patented the product.

What does this mean to you? Well if you raise the octane and don’t increase the chemical energy of the fuel, your engine will not knock but will be very lean at wide open throttle. That can damage your engine. Increasing the octane without increasing the chemical oxygen can lead to what is called "tail end knock". This is when not all of the fuel is burnt in the power stroke and the residual fuel is detonated during the exhaust stroke. This will cook the valves and lead to engine damage.

Not only did we prove that RACE-GAS can replace racing fuel in a lab and on an engine dyno, we also have over 3,000 racing hours using RACE-GAS. We have 2 teams that run the BAJA 1000 using RACE-GAS. We have 2 teams that have run the 2,000 mile Carrera Pan Americano using RACE-GAS. We are endurance road racers, (races from 24 to 36 hours), and have been running our three team cars using RACE-GAS for over 4 years with no fuel related issues. One thing we did find is that we get 10 more minutes of racing per tank. In a 24 hour race this means 2 less pit stops. That is a real competitive advantage.

Check out the videos on our website. We did some on air dyno tests on POWERNATION and Performance TV. They are worth a look

Dan Muldowney
Motorsports Fuel and Equipment
2180 County Road 42 West
Burnsville, MN 55337
855-722-3427
952-356-5308 Mobile
www.race-gas.com


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-----Original Message-----
From: david tittermary [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2015 9:54 PM
To: Daniel Muldowney
Subject: racegas vs torco

whats the difference?

 

[Tune+]

Nice, good response on their end. I love supporting local businesses!

 

[mbreinin]

MS109 makes great power....sometimes too much as I have personally experienced. I trust C16. It tunes like pump, loves high IATs and is very safe and consistent. It is expensive though, mighty expensive, and it is best to run it straight. That means draining the tank which is not that simple on these cars. So, I guess something you can mix, like the RGA or E85 is the best choice.

Mike

 

[EcoSwag1990]

Awesome thanks for looking into it some more, I like the concise email haha. I might have to grab a bottle and give it a test out at some point

 

[Slow89]

Nice, good response on their end. I love supporting local businesses!

im definitely trying the RGA but why do u think you're making more power with it than straight c16?

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