Anyone have any ideas on this problem? FINALLY SOLVED

[Leigh_bullitt]

Yeh, I changed the spark plugs and the problem persisted.
Its happened literally since I got the car new in 2020 and it would do this but only a few times and it’s gotten worse over the last four years.

checked and replaced the MAF, no vacuum leaks either.
Does the same stock or with a tune.

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[sk47]

Yeh plugs are good and coils look clean with no damage.

Maybe a coil pack timing light is the way to go first ?
Which would be a good recommendation?.

Hello; By plugs are good does this mean you have pulled them and had a look? Such was part of my suggestion. If the engine is shut off during a rough running episode and the plugs removed there might be some telltale evidence. If it is poor or no spark the plugs might have raw fuel on them. Plugs in affected cylinders may show different in other ways.

Coils can look just fine and be bad. Visual inspection not likely to be of value. I will do a search to see if any methods are around to test coils. I have used a multimeter to check coils on my lawnmowers to check for continuity. The windings inside a coil can be bad and you cannot see them.

I do not know that anyone has timing lights for sale anymore. I have one from the 1970's or 80's. But I would look for one with an inductive clip-on type end. That way you just clip the end onto a plug wire. Clip the end onto each plug wire and watch the light flash. Will be a crude measure but if a coil is dead or weak the light might show a difference from a good coil. Just a WAG as i do not really have a better idea just now.

 

[cerbomark]

you seemed to already covered the mentioned advise. what's the quality of the fuel in your area? has anyone thought about a fuel pump issue ? Lately a lot of new cars are having fuel pump recalls. Good luck man, I m running out of thoughts and only a shadetree mechanic.

 

[sk47]

I will do a search to see if any methods are around to test coils.

How to test 2020 ford ignition coils - Search

 

[AZ_Ryan]

I would think you d have thrown codes if that was it. ???

He said he had codes early in the thread...

 

[Leigh_bullitt]

you seemed to already covered the mentioned advise. what's the quality of the fuel in your area? has anyone thought about a fuel pump issue ? Lately a lot of new cars are having fuel pump recalls. Good luck man, I m running out of thoughts and only a shadetree mechanic.

Fuel pump was my other suspicion.
high in the rpm range car feels normal albeit slightly less on power.
It’s the low rpm’s where you really feel a difference, feels jerky and surging and exhaust note just sounds off.

 

[Leigh_bullitt]

He said he had codes early in the thread...

Yes I had two codes for the GPF filter after the cat but it disappeared and never came back.

but that said in Mode 6 on FORScan the cats are getting hotter than the desired temperature.
I don’t think it’s the cats but obviously something is off.
maybe too rich because of the coils ??

 

[sk47]

Fuel pump was my other suspicion.
high in the rpm range car feels normal albeit slightly less on power.
It’s the low rpm’s where you really feel a difference, feels jerky and surging and exhaust note just sounds off.

Hello; This is backward from my experience with fuel pumps. I'll be it the problem was more common with the older mechanical fuel pumps. Cars would run OK at lower speeds and loads but start to cut out at greater speeds. Might be OK up to 50 MPH but would cutout above that or up a hill.
Back to my pull the plugs when misfiring. If the engine is misfiring and the plugs are dry & clean, then I would suspect low or intermittent fuel. There are what are called NOID lights which can be plugged into the wire harness feeding the fuel injectors. The lights flicker if the electric impulse is working at the injector. Does not mean the injector is spraying fuel only that the electric impulse that operates the injector is working.

You write that the plugs have been changed. Did you keep the old plugs? Might be worth a look.

 

[Leigh_bullitt]

Pulled the plugs earlier today and they all seemed dry and clean.

 

[Leigh_bullitt]

Don’t get me wrong it’s still driveable when it’s rough. But at low rpm’s or in traffic it’s like I can’t drive a manual .
The. Suddenly it will be smooth as silk.

 

[ORRadtech]

My past experience with coil on plug coils was they were fine until they weren't.
Then I had one fail on my V6 Edge. Two months later a second one failed. At that point I replaced the remaining 5. The engine ran notably better compared to just replacing the first one. I deduced from that experience that coils could indeed be weak. Nothing scientific, just that one experience.

Yeh battery is good 14.7 volts when idling

12,5v you mean resting with engine switched off ?.

14.7V is the voltage the alternator is outputting, not battery voltage. To check the battery state of charge the car needs to be off and any "surface charge" removed. Surface charge can be removed by letting the car sit for a few hours or by turning on the headlights for about 10-15 seconds. Then measure battery voltage across the terminals. Here's a chart that gives you a rough idea of battery condition based on its state of charge.

 

[sk47]

FORScan the cats are getting hotter than the desired temperature.
I don’t think it’s the cats but obviously something is off.
maybe too rich because of the coils ??

Hello; CATS get hot from excess unburned fuel (or even oil). They are fancy stoves designed to heat up the fuel which escapes the engine combustion and get it hot enough to reduce the resulting fumes to a much less toxic type. That they get hot can be a sign of running rich.
You are correct in that lack of spark will allow raw fuel to be sent into the engine and not burned. A thing that raises questions is that the engine clears up when warmed up.
Another WAG is you have one or more fuel injectors leaking. This will allow fuel left in the injector and associated fuel rail to leak into the combustion chamber when the engine is turned off. Say this happens overnight. The next time started one or more cylinders are essentially flooded. It will take a while for the extra fuel to be burned away. Maybe even foul the plugs for a time.

Example, my four banger Sentra has to be allowed to run until the RPM's come down even if I merely want to pull it inside the garage. If i start it and shut it off too quick, then the next start will be rough with a distinct miss for a short time. I figure the fuel system is still in a "rich " start up mode and if I shut it off too soon the extra fuel causes it to run very rough next start. I have learned to let it idle until the engine RPM, s drop to below 1000. Then the next start will be normal.

 

[sk47]

Pulled the plugs earlier today and they all seemed dry and clean.

If you did so during a rough running spell such would seem (to me anyway) to indicate a fuel problem. My thinking, which can be wrong, is if the spark was absent then raw fuel would be present. Or at least some sign of excess fuel. By this logic clean & dry plugs might indicate a lack of fuel. But I am speculating from too great a distance.

Another wild thought is the nature of direct injection (DI) engines. With this setup fuel no longer washes the back of intake valves. Adding to the situation is that modern engines pull crankcase gases (oil and other vapors) out and send them into the intake manifolds. I Have yet to live with a DI engine so do not have experience. Since you are grasping for things to do/check, then perhaps do a carbon cleaning of the intake along with a fuel system cleaning.

 

[cerbomark]

op said this condition has appeared since the car was new.... another clue?

 

[Leigh_bullitt]

Yeh it’s been their since new

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