Anyone driven a ZL1?

[millhouse]

an almost second difference in an all out track car I'm betting is going to translate to much more in a car that, in Ford's own words, is not a track car. are there any 18 pp1 track times for grattan

One more time because you obviously don't understand. Grattan and Streets of Willow run very similar overall times. A car that runs a 3.5 second delta at Grattan is going to translate very well to a car that runs a 3.5 second delta at Willow Springs....even with it being shorter. We're not talking about 2 tracks that run a minute apart....the two tracks in question are typically within a few seconds of each-other.

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[tyler2k]

One more time because you obviously don't understand. Grattan and Streets of Willow run very similar overall times. A car that runs a 3.5 second delta at Grattan is going to translate very well to a car that runs a 3.5 second delta at Willow Springs....even with it being shorter. We're not talking about 2 tracks that run a minute apart....the two tracks in question are typically within a few seconds of each-other.

i fully understand we're talking seconds, are there any cars that have run a better time on grattan then willow? if 12 cars run both and all turn a second slower on willow that means the pp2 will also more then likely pull a slower time putting it behind the 1le. and a few seconds could put 2 cars in 2 different classes. so unless there are an decent amount of times showing a bit faster for each track then yes track length is a factor even if they run a close time the times still favor the shorter track

 

[howlins550]

i fully understand we're talking seconds, are there any cars that have run a better time on willow then grattan ? if 12 cars run both and all turn a second slower on willow that means the pp2 will also more then likely pull a slower time putting it behind the 1le. and a few seconds could put 2 cars in 2 different classes. so unless there are an decent amount of times showing a bit faster for each track then yes track length is a factor even if they run a close time the times still favor the shorter track

We're talking about the fact of the PP2 running 3.5 faster than the PP1 at the same track. So that should translate to be the case on just about any track. There was no power increase, just suspension and grip increase and it manged to pull that much ahead. So just assuming its truly that much faster on the same track, it should be that much faster on another track

 

[tyler2k]

We're talking about the fact of the PP2 running 3.5 faster than the PP1 at the same track. So that should translate to be the case on just about any track. There was no power increase, just suspension and grip increase and it manged to pull that much ahead. So just assuming its truly that much faster on the same track, it should be that much faster on another track

so what about the drag race done by motor trend, the camaro won the quarter but hot stretch it and the mustang wins. if one track is smaller and consistently runs faster times, even if it is only a second or two, then how is that not gonna happen to the pp2 as well

 

[howlins550]

so what about the drag race done by motor trend, the camaro won the quarter but hot stretch it and the mustang wins. if one track is smaller and consistently runs faster times, even if it is only a second or two, then how is that not gonna happen to the pp2 as well

ive said it every time they run these cars, the mustang and camaro swap tires and run would result in big difference. the front tire on the camaro is wider that the rear on the mustang. and if you pay attention to the testing, the driver and journalist always note the softer feel, more roll of the mustang. Power wise, it is just fine which is what we're seeing with the PP2, no power increase just work to get more grip and put that power down better. The problem isnt power/speed its grip and cornering which the pp2 has seemingly addressed perfectly.

The only problem i still have with Ford is when you advertise and add all these track focused options, yet say its not meant to be a competitor to the 1LE or not meant for track use. They get greedy, i personally think that the pp2 will really close a gap on the gt350, but because lack of cooling and braking it isnt "track focused"

 

[tyler2k]

ive said it every time they run these cars, the mustang and camaro swap tires and run would result in big difference. the front tire on the camaro is wider that the rear on the mustang. and if you pay attention to the testing, the driver and journalist always note the softer feel, more roll of the mustang. Power wise, it is just fine which is what we're seeing with the PP2, no power increase just work to get more grip and put that power down better. The problem isnt power/speed its grip and cornering which the pp2 has seemingly addressed perfectly.

The only problem i still have with Ford is when you advertise and add all these track focused options, yet say its not meant to be a competitor to the 1LE or not meant for track use. They get greedy, i personally think that the pp2 will really close a gap on the gt350, but because lack of cooling and braking it isnt "track focused"

i agree on my 15 pp the tires were a joke and it is upsetting that ford doesn't implement coolers for the car so it could be a good track car that doesn't break the bank. I am also curious though since the pp2 has a decent tire advantage over the 1le what will the response be if it does win and camaro guys start saying with the same tires the 1le would win

 

[howlins550]

i agree on my 15 pp the tires were a joke and it is upsetting that ford doesn't implement coolers for the car so it could be a good track car that doesn't break the bank. I am also curious though since the pp2 has a decent tire advantage over the 1le what will the response be if it does win and camaro guys start saying with the same tires the 1le would win

Ford does a lot of stuff that i really dont understand, still love the cars and you always have a huge aftermarket to change things, but out of the factory, bang for buck they could do a little better.

I would be very curious to see both cars, put on same size and brand of tires. Like mentioned, the 1/4 times are so close and anything over that the mustang starts to pull away, so i think they would be on top of each other track wise.

Mustang would be perfect IMO if the pp1 is base GT, pp2 is the only PP option, include coolers even as an option for those who will track the car. Let people have whatever transmission they want, and not require them to have the top interior to run a "performance" based model

 

[tyler2k]

Ford does a lot of stuff that i really dont understand, still love the cars and you always have a huge aftermarket to change things, but out of the factory, bang for buck they could do a little better.

I would be very curious to see both cars, put on same size and brand of tires. Like mentioned, the 1/4 times are so close and anything over that the mustang starts to pull away, so i think they would be on top of each other track wise.

Mustang would be perfect IMO if the pp1 is base GT, pp2 is the only PP option, include coolers even as an option for those who will track the car. Let people have whatever transmission they want, and not require them to have the top interior to run a "performance" based model

completely agree the pp1 should be base and add the pp2 with coolers, although I think the tires might be a bit much if you plan on street driving. I would love a comparison of both cars same time and tires and set up for them. that would be the true test

 

[millhouse]

i fully understand we're talking seconds, are there any cars that have run a better time on grattan then willow? if 12 cars run both and all turn a second slower on willow that means the pp2 will also more then likely pull a slower time putting it behind the 1le. and a few seconds could put 2 cars in 2 different classes. so unless there are an decent amount of times showing a bit faster for each track then yes track length is a factor even if they run a close time the times still favor the shorter track

No, you don’t fully understand or you wouldn’t be arguing. We’re not talking about overall track times, were talking about taking a delta and using that data to make an educated guess. Track length doesn’t come into play when the two tracks in question run withing a 0.5% lap time of each other.

We're talking about the fact of the PP2 running 3.5 faster than the PP1 at the same track. So that should translate to be the case on just about any track. There was no power increase, just suspension and grip increase and it manged to pull that much ahead. So just assuming its truly that much faster on the same track, it should be that much faster on another track

This guy gets it.

so what about the drag race done by motor trend, the camaro won the quarter but hot stretch it and the mustang wins. if one track is smaller and consistently runs faster times, even if it is only a second or two, then how is that not gonna happen to the pp2 as well

Again, sit down and think about how these things work.

 

[ALUSA]

PP2 will suffer the same way 1le suffered in the quarter and stretches! Wider tires and more downforce means more friction, so pp1 will best the pp2 in the quarter and a mile stretch! Now, back to ZL1, it is an amazing machinery for mid 50’s as long as you are ok with the blind spots and feeling like you are in a tank like structure that barely has any window area! Convertible with the top down would eliminate all that though lol!

 

[howlins550]

PP2 will suffer the same way 1le suffered in the quarter and stretches! Wider tires and more downforce means more friction, so pp1 will best the pp2 in the quarter and a mile stretch! Now, back to ZL1, it is an amazing machinery for mid 50’s as long as you are ok with the blind spots and feeling like you are in a tank like structure that barely has any window area! Convertible with the top down would eliminate all that though lol!

I think the pp1 vs pp2 through a mile will be pretty minimal. the reason its such a difference in the 1le is due to the coyote loving to rev and make power vs more tq down low. The ZL1 was a blast to drive for sure, but it also has me thinking, what would the 18+ coyote feel like with the price difference adding a blower such as whipple?

I think one of the best parts of the ZL1 was that A10 transmission. I know its co-developed between ford and gm but there are differences. anyone driven both? how does the ford's compare?

 

[millhouse]

PP2 will suffer the same way 1le suffered in the quarter and stretches! Wider tires and more downforce means more friction, so pp1 will best the pp2 in the quarter and a mile stretch! Now, back to ZL1, it is an amazing machinery for mid 50’s as long as you are ok with the blind spots and feeling like you are in a tank like structure that barely has any window area! Convertible with the top down would eliminate all that though lol!

Wider tires=more traction=better 60'=better 1/4 mile time. The PP2 should more than compensate the added friction force by being able to cut a better 60'.

The 1LE runs done in the head to head showed a comparable or higher trap speed than thee base SS. It didn't run slower due to friction, it ran slower due to conditions and/or driver.

 

[ALUSA]

Wider tires=more traction=better 60'=better 1/4 mile time. The PP2 should more than compensate the added friction force by being able to cut a better 60'.

The 1LE runs done in the head to head showed a comparable or higher trap speed than thee base SS. It didn't run slower due to friction, it ran slower due to conditions and/or driver.

I believe this was discussed in the camaro forum as well and everyone is convinced that the 1le is slower than a regular manual ss in a straight line. I don’t know exactly what comparison they had to back it up but it does make sense due to weight difference, down force and front tire width! Both versions of the car seems to hook up ok but still have wheel hops!

 

[millhouse]

I believe this was discussed in the camaro forum as well and everyone is convinced that the 1le is slower than a regular manual ss in a straight line. I don’t know exactly what comparison they had to back it up but it does make sense due to weight difference, down force and front tire width! Both versions of the car seems to hook up ok but still have wheel hops!

Everyone on the Camaro Forum is full of shit.

In Motortrend ran a 1LE here...



to a [email protected].

Every publicized time out there puts either the ET or MPH right on par with the stock SS. If downforce or friction was a factor, it would show up with a reduction in MPH...which isn't the case. There is no difference in the 1/4 mile, don't let anyone BS you.

 

[thehunterooo]

Dead last place rip

Lost to an engine that makes no low end power how does that happen?

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