Al O Moves On

[Strokerswild]

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a...aro-chief-engineer-moves-to-gm-electric-cars/

Let the rampant speculation begin!

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[Zelek]

Maybe the new guy will figure out that people don't like driving a car with a terrible interior and view. Who cares how well it performs on the track. Majority of these ZL1 drivers are on regular roads.

 

[nastang87xx]

Maybe the new guy will figure out that people don't like driving a car with a terrible interior and view. Who cares how well it performs on the track. Majority of these ZL1 drivers are on regular roads.

The Alpha Camaro interior makes the Mustang interior look like the designers had severely limited time to figure it out. Feels more like a revision of the S197 interior, while an improvement, was not exactly ground breaking. The Camaro's interior is no luxury car but it's better thought out in being Spartan yet modern looking and feeling fit and finish can be debated but it's certain above the S550, at least the whole dash anyway. Seats aren't the greatest. Ford's S550 interior was just enough to make it feel fresh...for 5 minutes. Not exactly a great effort.

And there are plenty of people who care how well it performs. I personally find it absolutely ridiculous, if not unacceptable that the S550 is such a pig. The same thing can be said about Mustang owners and the track. Al Oppenheimer is an engineer and he definitely made is job to deliver a precision instrument and he did. But it didn't excite the masses and frankly I feel like that's on the marketing department, not the engineering department. Look at all the marketing Ford did with the S550, from the New York 50th Ann display at the Empire State Building and Good Morning America to the HARD push in Europe. Ford shoved the Mustang into everyone's face. And it worked.

 

[Hack]

Dang, the Camaro is going away again - isn't it.

Hopefully that doesn't mean Ford will neuter the Mustang. At least the Challenger is still around.

 

[nastang87xx]

Dang, the Camaro is going away again - isn't it.

Hopefully that doesn't mean Ford will neuter the Mustang.

Negative. From my understanding, with the ME Corvette coming, this is going to give some further opportunity to expand the Camaro lineup in performance and price point. Early 2020's is supposedly the next chassis.

And yes, competition is a good thing.

 

[Zelek]

The Alpha Camaro interior makes the Mustang interior look like the designers had severely limited time to figure it out. Feels more like a revision of the S197 interior, while an improvement, was not exactly ground breaking. The Camaro's interior is no luxury car but it's better thought out in being Spartan yet modern looking and feeling fit and finish can be debated but it's certain above the S550, at least the whole dash anyway. Seats aren't the greatest. Ford's S550 interior was just enough to make it feel fresh...for 5 minutes. Not exactly a great effort.

And there are plenty of people who care how well it performs. I personally find it absolutely ridiculous, if not unacceptable that the S550 is such a pig. The same thing can be said about Mustang owners and the track. Al Oppenheimer is an engineer and he definitely made is job to deliver a precision instrument and he did. But it didn't excite the masses and frankly I feel like that's on the marketing department, not the engineering department. Look at all the marketing Ford did with the S550, from the New York 50th Ann display at the Empire State Building and Good Morning America to the HARD push in Europe. Ford shoved the Mustang into everyone's face. And it worked.

The people you are talking about that care are probably 2% of the total buyers. The Camaro failed for simple reasons. People do not want a track focused car to drive on regular roads. That's where the Mustang shined. After driving both and being a die hard Camaro fan for many years growing up, the 2016 model was a big upset. Now if you want to talk about simply performance and track, yes, the Camaro was built a lot better for it. The problem was not only the marketing, but the sticker shock that came with the car versus the 2015-2017 models.

I was able to test drive both cars and you see how my decision went. Then again, I'm not someone to visits the track hardly at all and if I did it would be on a whim.

 

[martinjlm]

Dang, the Camaro is going away again - isn't it.

Hopefully that doesn't mean Ford will neuter the Mustang. At least the Challenger is still around.

Negative. From my understanding, with the ME Corvette coming, this is going to give some further opportunity to expand the Camaro lineup in performance and price point. Early 2020's is supposedly the next chassis.

And yes, competition is a good thing.

Mark Dickens is not new to Camaro and not new to performance engineering. He has been involved in SEMA properties as well as GM Performance Parts engineering for Camaro and Corvette. Al has wrapped up the 6th Gen. Mark will deliver the 7th Gen and Al will deliver a line of electric vehicles. Knowing Al, the electric vehicles will have class competitive or class leading handling and performance.

 

[nastang87xx]

I remember a story where Al got pissed off at the engineering team for using bolts that had excessive threading on them in the name of weight savings.

 

[Hack]

Negative. From my understanding, with the ME Corvette coming, this is going to give some further opportunity to expand the Camaro lineup in performance and price point. Early 2020's is supposedly the next chassis.

And yes, competition is a good thing.

You told me to speculate and then you shot me down right away. I'm confused.

edit: oops, that was @Strokerswild that wanted me to speculate. You are the designated party pooper in this thread, aren't you?

 

[nastang87xx]

You told me to speculate and then you shot me down right away. I'm confused.

edit: oops, that was @Strokerswild that wanted me to speculate. You are the designated party pooper in this thread, aren't you?

POOP!

 

[BmacIL]

The Alpha Camaro interior makes the Mustang interior look like the designers had severely limited time to figure it out. Feels more like a revision of the S197 interior, while an improvement, was not exactly ground breaking. The Camaro's interior is no luxury car but it's better thought out in being Spartan yet modern looking and feeling fit and finish can be debated but it's certain above the S550, at least the whole dash anyway. Seats aren't the greatest. Ford's S550 interior was just enough to make it feel fresh...for 5 minutes. Not exactly a great effort.

And there are plenty of people who care how well it performs. I personally find it absolutely ridiculous, if not unacceptable that the S550 is such a pig. The same thing can be said about Mustang owners and the track. Al Oppenheimer is an engineer and he definitely made is job to deliver a precision instrument and he did. But it didn't excite the masses and frankly I feel like that's on the marketing department, not the engineering department. Look at all the marketing Ford did with the S550, from the New York 50th Ann display at the Empire State Building and Good Morning America to the HARD push in Europe. Ford shoved the Mustang into everyone's face. And it worked.

The interior layout of the Camaro is like 3 separate people designed it without talking to each other. It's nonsensical in the placement and integration of many things, the center HVAC vents being the worst offender.

Also it is the vehicle line chief engineer's responsibility (Al) for directing and detailing the requirements of the car, including which packages were more or less track focused. Marketing has a lot of influence on this but ultimately the chief delivers what his vision of the vehicle is.

You know why it doesn't sell?
1) initially looked too much like the previous model
2) pricing compared with competitors, especially with no cheaper V8 model w/o the more track-focused hardware
3) visibility, usable space and ergonomics are worse...most people care about this quite a bit

Also I really disagree on the Mustang interior. The S197 feels decades older if you do a back to back. Oh and at least it has a harmonious theme throughout. It's got its faults but overall very good. This is my first Mustang and I wouldn't have considered buying one before the S550. That's how much the exterior, interior made a difference, along with the IRS.

 

[Fatguy]

Al O will still bring in the Camaro EV and probably the Corvette EV in addition to others. The fact that the article brings up the idea and then back tracks when it didn’t have to is your wink that this is a go...


https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a24438038/chevrolet-ecopo-camaro-concept-sema/

 

[Hack]

Developing an eCOPO Camaro is a lose-lose in my opinion. Environmental Nazis that want to stop us from burning gasoline don't like tire smoke either. And by far MOST motor heads actually like the ICE a lot and don't want it to go away.

Another example of misdirected efforts at GM.

 

[Loki-GT]

The interior layout of the Camaro is like 3 separate people designed it without talking to each other. It's nonsensical in the placement and integration of many things, the center HVAC vents being the worst offender.

Also it is the vehicle line chief engineer's responsibility (Al) for directing and detailing the requirements of the car, including which packages were more or less track focused. Marketing has a lot of influence on this but ultimately the chief delivers what his vision of the vehicle is.

You know why it doesn't sell?
1) initially looked too much like the previous model
2) pricing compared with competitors, especially with no cheaper V8 model w/o the more track-focused hardware
3) visibility, usable space and ergonomics are worse...most people care about this quite a bit

Also I really disagree on the Mustang interior. The S197 feels decades older if you do a back to back. Oh and at least it has a harmonious theme throughout. It's got its faults but overall very good. This is my first Mustang and I wouldn't have considered buying one before the S550. That's how much the exterior, interior made a difference, along with the IRS.

Agreed, I have heard others state the Camaro has a superior designed interior but I've never heard anybody compare the S550 interior to the S197, they couldn't be further from each other if they tried. The interior of the Camaro is a cave, no rear view, the doors are so tall you have bad side view and that dashboard is hideous and the materials certainly aren't any better. I have the 400a interior and in 2006 I had the Premium Mustang GT and the current Premium blows the S197 away, it's not even comparable.

The Camaro sales aren't up there because it's not as a good a car as the Mustang is, my best friend is a GM fanboy and hates the Camaro, especially the 2019 Camaro and is even giving thought to buying a Mustang GT. He HATES Ford!! But the new Mustang has him sold, I'd say Ford is doing something right, it helps though that his first ride in my GT was full throttle in Drag Mode.

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