Advice

[Chairman]

If you have proof they knew about the repairs then you have them bang to rights, and I very much doubt they would want to go to court, as it could ruin them for a few years, who would buy a car from them?
Why would you swallow it? he is 100% in the wrong, only problem you might have if he says I will give you your money back and take the car back. then what will you do?

Good luck proving that. If you had documentation that they knew about the damage, proof that they didn't tell you about it, and proof you relied on their no-damage statement then maybe you'd have a case under some legal theory.

Despite OP's claim to the contrary, I don't believe a dealership has any obligation to disclose repaired damage unless its a salvage/buyback/flood/theft vehicle. OP could try a nasty letter, but I guarantee that the dealership has been through this before (whether they're a reputable dealership or dirtbags) and is not going to be particularly interested in writing you a check for a car that you've owned for two years and put 25k miles on. For all they know, you wrecked it and had it repaired by a hack body shop and want them to foot the bill. The only way to know the repair history of a car is to buy it new off the lot.

Sponsored

 

[Mike's Mustang]

I am probably uninformed. But the question is: how is a misaligned door repair worth $3500?

From what I understand in his post. The panel is misaligned on the door so it can't be corrected by realigning the door. They would have to remove the panel, obtain/install a new one, and paint. Would probably paint more than just the door panel to color blend.

Even then, $3,500 does seem a little high.

 

[BeauxXL1200]

Technically this is not fraud. There has to be criminal intent for this to be defined as fraud.

Like I said, the salesman and I have known each other for a very long time and I know he was stunned when I told him about this. This was just an oversight...hence negligence. Yes part of this is my fault for not doing as thorough an inspection on the car when I bought it, but like I have already said, this was from a good friend of mine and I know he would not deceive me intentionally. I should have done a better job inspecting the car...but then again, an ordinary person probably does not inspect the door seams and hinges when buying a car for damage. You would have to be trained in body work to really notice the damage.

Besides, considering the car only had 4,000 miles on it when I bought it and the price was $24,500 with included $1,500 for installing leather on the interior), I had a great price.

You said the dealer knew about the repairs but your friend, the salesman, didn't.

You bought the car from the dealer; not from the salesman.

If the dealer didn't tell their salesman about it and allowed him to sell a car that had been repaired, and your state's law requires repairs to be disclosed, that's fraud, as the dealer's knowledge of the repair is imputed to its salesman.

Hopefully, they'll take care of it. :cheers:

 

[signal12]

Check the rules governing Used Car Sales at the Federal Trade Commision. The fines for violating these rules are stiff. As I read the rules, you've got leverage to at least get the repairs done but there may be a time deadline. Just remember, in a civil lawsuit you only have to get the majority of the jury to agree with you (4 out of 6 jurors) unlike criminal cases where all must agree. Don't let them win!!! First and foremost you need to contact dealer, speak with manager/owner, explain situation ad what you want them to do.

Good luck!!

 

[jperls]

Check the rules governing Used Car Sales at the Federal Trade Commision. The fines for violating these rules are stiff. As I read the rules, you've got leverage to at least get the repairs done but there may be a time deadline. Just remember, in a civil lawsuit you only have to get the majority of the jury to agree with you (4 out of 6 jurors) unlike criminal cases where all must agree. Don't let them win!!! First and foremost you need to contact dealer, speak with manager/owner, explain situation ad what you want them to do.

Good luck!!

That is what I have thought so as well. Truthfully, when it comes down to everything, I am probably just going to get the trunk re-aligned and call it a day.

At the end of the day...here is what it comes down to

1. Does the door close and keep water out - YES
2. Does the car run and drive - YES
3. Does the trunk close - YES...but it rubs against the bumper and creaks when driving.

I know I caused a massive shakeup at the dealership because the owners ended up calling the salesman and asking what the heck is going on...who is this guy threatening to sue us.

Just received a call from them...they are going to call me back in an hour or two with everyone on the phone so we can come to a solution.

 

[signal12]

That's a step in the right direction. Keep us updated.

 

[PJR202]

All things considered, Iwould think if the dealership did the original repair they should correct their mistakes for you free of charge. Just seems like common sense to me.

 

[Muff Muff]

That is what I have thought so as well. Truthfully, when it comes down to everything, I am probably just going to get the trunk re-aligned and call it a day.

At the end of the day...here is what it comes down to

1. Does the door close and keep water out - YES
2. Does the car run and drive - YES
3. Does the trunk close - YES...but it rubs against the bumper and creaks when driving.

I know I caused a massive shakeup at the dealership because the owners ended up calling the salesman and asking what the heck is going on...who is this guy threatening to sue us.

Just received a call from them...they are going to call me back in an hour or two with everyone on the phone so we can come to a solution.

I wouldn't drop the issue with the door if I were you. It may be fine now, but there's no telling how it will be down the road. Get them to realign everything at least.

 

[ManBearPig]

I'm having a really hard time seeing how the dealer is legally required to disclose previous repairs on a USED car. Here in TN, disclosure of repairs to a NEW car is only required if the damage exceeds $1k. And even that gives a lot of leeway. I'll bet we would all be surprised how many new cars have had paint/body work before even being sold. Whether repairs were done at the plant after s line worker dropped an impact on the hood, or at the dealer after a car fell off the rail car, etc...

 

[Jdenkevitz]

Hi everyone...

So for those who are doing the "AS IS" argument.

The dealer knew about these repairs before selling me the car and NEVER TOLD ME ABOUT THEM (negligence on dealerships part). I even talked with Utah's consumer affairs division and they said I could have a case against them...but if the dealership wants to go the route of making me get an attorney, then I'll just forget the whole thing and write a very nasty yelp review.

For any used cars...full disclosure of all accidents and prior service history is required by law.

So I do have some recourse. If you are all wondering how the repair comes out to around $3,500, well it is because the door skin has to be replaced, paint has to be done and blended, alignment with front and rear quarter panels, etc.

And finally...thanks for the Lambo door idea, but I'll pass.

I don't believe you are correct. The laws very state to state. Does Utah explicitly have a law stating that accidents must be disclosed? They must provide an odometer disclosure statement, but prior accidents?

If it was a Salvage/Branded Title, they must disclose such, but that may not be the case with your vehicle. see :
http://mved.utah.gov/sales/salvage

 

[aham23]

How does the OP know the Dealership knew about the prior accident? What is the evidence. If they knew it is indeed fraud based on a misrepresentation of the facts to sell a car for a profit. Intent is there in my opinion. Many accidents never hit CarFax as well as 1000s of things dealer's fix before cars are sold. Good luck.

 

[SStormtrooPer]

I think you are going to have a pretty tough sell trying to get the dealership to reimburse you, and may need to refocus your efforts on getting the cost of the repair down.

Wouldn't it be significantly cheaper to find a used door off a wrecked car, and paint it -- or maybe even just blend it if you found the right color? It may take longer to find the part, but you would save a bunch of $ in the long run.

I agree that $3500 seems ridiculous...

 

[timd38]

Another reason why I don't buy used cars...

 

[yomamma219]

Man people are being brutal on here. The OP seemed like he trusted the salesman as a friend which makes me think the dealership did not do anything intentional wrong. Salesmen just are doing their jobs yes some can be scummy but I like to have a little faith in people and think someone he's known for a long time wouldn't intentionally screw him and I feel like a dealer would disclose this info to their salesmen so that the sales man can do their job and avoid the issue during the sale instead of having to lie or plead ignorance.

In the end consumers need to make educated buying decisions which yes can be hard when you have a salesman shoving a product down your throat. Yes lies of omission are still lies and the dealer should right the wrong if that's the case.

The OP seems to be handling it appropriately though. Tough but has a realistic grasp on the situation understanding the risk they took when purchasing a used vehicle but making sure that they weren't defrauded.

People really need to get off the Sue Sue sue soap box. Not everything is someone else fault and people need to take more personal responsibility and realize sometime shit just happens. I honestly feel like this is a crisis America is facing as a whole.

 

[jperls]

Well...after a lot of going back and forth and investigating...at the moment, it looks like the dealership is willing to work with me and pay for everything. Part of it is that the body shop that initially did the work guarantees their work for life...so since it has failed, they are willing to work with me on this. Of course, they want to have me send it back to Utah for them to fix, which I have said...no way. I mean what is the point because by the time everything is costed out with transport, insurance, and additional worry of further damage while being transported, + the fact I don't trust their work since it has already failed...it is easier to use my body people out here in Sacramento. Well, all is well that end's well.

And to answer some earlier questions:

1. The dealer told me about a repair order and I have the actual repair number used to make the repairs...therefore showing the dealership knew about the repair prior to selling me the car

2. Yes, the price seem's a little rediculous, but half of the estimate goes towards getting a new door skin since the one that was repaired needs to be taken off. Oh...and now that I actually look at the estimate, I did not put down the correct number.

Door Cost: $2,990 (before taxes)
Trunk Cost: $600 (think I might just file warranty claim and have Ford re-align the trunk - skip the paint part).

The only thing I hope now is that when I take it to my body guys to document the failed repair that we don't find anything else. I'll say this, any hint of frame damage and/or frame repair and the gloves are off.

Sponsored