AdvanceTrac engaging at high speed shifts

[NightmareMoon]

AdvanceTrak is stability. TC is traction control.

So I think we're talking about traction control. If you have the premium toggle switches one tap on the TC one will turn off traction control but leave stability control turned on.

If the TC light is flashing, the car knows the rear wheels are spinning more than the front wheels. You might not feel it, but its probably happening. TC doesn't just kick in for no reason.

If you have a symmetrical rear alignment (camber and toe), and your hubs are in good condition, and you've done things to lock down the rear bushings, then it will probably spin tires in a pretty predictably straight line, so just be careful out there.

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[2019GT]

AdvanceTrak is stability. TC is traction control.

So I think we're talking about traction control. If you have the premium toggle switches one tap on the TC one will turn off traction control but leave stability control turned on.

If the TC light is flashing, the car knows the rear wheels are spinning more than the front wheels. You might not feel it, but its probably happening. TC doesn't just kick in for no reason.

If you have a symmetrical rear alignment (camber and toe), and your hubs are in good condition, and you've done things to lock down the rear bushings, then it will probably spin tires in a pretty predictably straight line, so just be careful out there.

I just got an alignment after installing the "stop the hop" ultimate kit, running new struts and springs too.

But I'm definitely talking about AdvanceTrac engaging. The TC light to the left is constant on because TC is off, but then the AT light to the right will flash on those 4-5 and 5-6 shifts. The datalogs show torque source code 2, which maps to Stability Control. Though from memory I'm not sure if traction control would use the same torque code too.

One thing that I don't think I've tried ironically is leave TC and AT completely on and see which system kicks in first, TC or AT lol

 

[NightmareMoon]

I just got an alignment after installing the "stop the hop" ultimate kit, running new struts and springs too.

But I'm definitely talking about AdvanceTrac engaging. The TC light to the left is constant on because TC is off, but then the AT light to the right will flash on those 4-5 and 5-6 shifts. The datalogs show torque source code 2, which maps to Stability Control. Though from memory I'm not sure if traction control would use the same torque code too.

One thing that I don't think I've tried ironically is leave TC and AT completely on and see which system kicks in first, TC or AT lol

Interesting.

 

[MinDseTz]

I just got an alignment after installing the "stop the hop" ultimate kit, running new struts and springs too.

But I'm definitely talking about AdvanceTrac engaging. The TC light to the left is constant on because TC is off, but then the AT light to the right will flash on those 4-5 and 5-6 shifts. The datalogs show torque source code 2, which maps to Stability Control. Though from memory I'm not sure if traction control would use the same torque code too.

One thing that I don't think I've tried ironically is leave TC and AT completely on and see which system kicks in first, TC or AT lol

Are you turning off TC fully or are you talking about track mode illuminating the TC off on the dash? If so, track mode only turns it off partially.

What datalogger are you using? I don’t think torque source differentiates for AT vs TC.

 

[Andy13186]

Mine did this but doesnt do it in track mode AFTER I toggle TCS off(still does it in dragstrip mode) Even though TCS off light illuminates with just switching to track mode you still have to toggle it off.


Doesnt do it with advancetrac totally disabled but I want advancetrac on and TCS off, so this is the only mode that works for me with advancetrac on without power being killed on shifts. PBD tune though .

 

[MinDseTz]

Mine did this but doesnt do it in track mode (still does it in dragstrip mode) AFTER I toggle TCS off Even though TCS off light illuminates with just switching to track mode you still have to toggle it off.

My understanding is AT uses yaw, longitudinal acceleration, steering angle, and some other inputs to keep you straight. TC mainly uses wheel speed sensors as inputs. Based on different levels of TC (off, track, on), varying levels of interference with tq delivery and braking input occur. I haven’t seen AT kick in unless you’ve already really unsettled the car, but I can see how it may be accidentally be set off. I have no idea about the drag racing aspect, but I definitely wouldn’t want the same shift characteristics for drag and track.



That being said, these are all assumptions based on what I’ve read and seen on track. Once you get comfortable, just turn it all off or get a Motorsport ABS module lol.

so this is the only mode that works for me with advancetrac on without power being killed on shifts.

Sport and drag probably use the most aggressive shift characteristic, I think Lund does the same.

 

[MinDseTz]

One thing that I don't think I've tried ironically is leave TC and AT completely on and see which system kicks in first, TC or AT lol

What PIDs would you use to do this? Be careful though, that’s a lot of power to be playing with when you aren’t sure what will happen.

 

[engineermike]

I have the same issue with AT. The throttle closes at high speeds and it’s worse the more power I make. It could happen on a shift or sometimes not. The only solution that has worked so far is disabling AT. My guess is the tolerance reduces a lot as you go faster.

 

[2019GT]

What PIDs would you use to do this? Be careful though, that’s a lot of power to be playing with when you aren’t sure what will happen.

Thanks for the concern. But this all started when I was 100% stock except for running Lund E85 tune. Something about their tunes seem to cause stability control to kick in sooner. I began to grow highly suspicious of this mysterious wheel spin when I threw on Michelin PS4S and could slam the throttle from a dead stop and hook, and we're talking first gear. I just couldn't believe I was getting serious wheel spin at 100MPH.

Then I ended up on the whipple calibration tune for a short while when I got the blower, and I noticed that AT was also kicking in, but it was doing so farrrrr less aggressively. You couldn't really feel the power being severely cut, and at first I didn't really notice it until I checked the datalogs.

But then I ended up with Lund again to give me a custom tune for the Whipple, and once again the power was severely being cut. And it's never on the 3-4 shift where the torque would be higher. It was still only happening on the 4-5 and higher shifts. This wasn't adding up to me. Why wouldn't stability kick in on the lower gear?

So this summer I decided to grab brand new PS4S and shut the thing off ... which led to me doing countless pulls and tracking straight every time.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm on all seasons right now and I do have concerns about going sideways on these lol. For fun I tried a 2nd gear pull and AT kicked in really hard. But I have no doubt I actually would have gone sideways lol.

Anyway I forget the exact field name but using my NGauge there is a field in the datalog called torque_source or something. I forget if there's a value specifically for stability control rather than traction control.

But I've tried every combination possible with the traction control system:

1. Default (all on)
1. Single press (TC off/AT on) aka Traction Control Off
2. Double press (TC reduced/ AT reduced) aka AT Sport
3. Long hold (TC off/AT off) aka AdvanceTrac Off

Any option other than #3 causes a massive throttle close at those high speed shifts.

 

[engineermike]

Tc and at use the same torque source code.

 

[MinDseTz]

I agree with @engineermike about speed increasing sensitivity and I attached all the torque source states you should ever see. I’d be curious to see if anything more indicative of the stability side of AT did pop up during these events but you’d need to log ABS module CAN bus data directly I think.

In older mustangs, I think some PID would differentiate ESP events vs TC vs ABS. I haven't seen that in 15-23.

 

[engineermike]

https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/pcmtec.190584/page-11#post-3850756

I doubt any tuner currently has access to tc/at stuff.

 

[MinDseTz]

I attached all the torque source states you should ever see.

forgot to actually attach it

 

[MinDseTz]

In case anyone cares, you can log stability control vs tc. This is in track mode.

 

[2019GT]

In case anyone cares, you can log stability control vs tc. This is in track mode.

I've got HP Tuners (very inexperienced though) and nGauge. Do you know how I can log TC vs SC with either tool?

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