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350R preferred over the CFTP??
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DrumReaper
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I can appreciate that... care to nail down the costs associated with both cars for a routine season of track piddling? I wonder, after accounting for ALL costs, just how King you can be with a lighter wallet?...
Again, the 500 is a great car but I don’t hear of it generating the joy the 350R owners, who have had the genuine ability to track both, seem to relish.
But, then again, pulling and pushing paddles may be more fun, I guess.................
BillyJRacing
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I can't tell if the car has the handling pack aero installed or not, or if the hood vent rain tray was removed, or if it had the track alignment. The opening image of the black GT500 shows the rear gurney flap installed but there's no walk-around like they did with the M5.
Based on the understeer of the car, I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't have the track alignment, rain tray removed, or front splitter extensions. There is a lot of time in all of those.
I doubt Ford supported the test with new tires, aligning the car, making sure the hot tire pressures are right, and making sure the aero was installed. Likewise being in BMWs home country, I would be surprised if the M5 wasn't properly "prepared" for track use.
The M5 is about 100lbs heavier with significantly less downforce and smaller tires that are likely not as sticky as the GT500. I would put my money on the 500 all day long.
Even if it was a straight-up test, its pretty common for US media to be seconds off the capability of a given car and getting it wrong which one is actually faster. I'd like to think the Germans are more procedural than we are, but who knows...
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Caballus
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Thanks much. Agree that there are a lot of unknowns. Just surprised an M5 would even be close. Part may also be due to the fact that Hockenheim is a technical track without a lot of long straights for the GT500 to use its horsepower advantage.
GT500 was a base. Ford definitely did not support. Not sure if it's the car that is shown in picture at the beginning, which has a Munich plate, but probably is. Based on that plate, it's probably from someone like Geiger.
The site that posted it is from the UK. I don't think the test was super scientific. They mention the fact that the M5 was a different day and different conditions. However, I doubt that either was more track prepped than the other, although I won't claim to know for sure.
Edit: Misunderstood your point about aero. Got it now.
BillyJRacing
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Tracks can vary over a second on the same day. Back to back tests need to be done within the same hour and on new tires. Comparing two different days, drivers, old tires, etc.. makes the results no more interesting than car X went faster on a given day than car Y on another day. Doesn't mean much for actually determining which car is faster and by how much.
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Caballus
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Makes sense. If both were stock, but properly prepped, and run on the same day, driver, etc., how much faster on that track should one anticipate the GT500 would be than an M5?
Tomster
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Here we go......
On a side note, @BillyJRacing, can you recommend an alignment setting for a roval course like Daytona or Charlotte? I'm starting with a new car (CFTP) and due to the differences in weight and its distribution, I wonder if my R model alignment settings would be different. I would like to minimize the guess work starting out. With the R, I started with FP recommended settings and tweaked them as I went along. I'm going to brush up on string alignments to make any field changes on the spot.
I could also call over to the FPRS to see what those guys are using for starters.
Thanks in advance. PM me if you prefer.
Caballus
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Not sure where you are going. I'm looking to disarm those over here who argue that various European marques perform better on track than the GT500. So far, there is little out there, and seemingly no head to head comparisons. In that vein Billy's word is better than anything else that's available, which will be true until at least April or so.
Here we go......
bluebeastsrt
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Tomster
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Ha! Its just a typical difference of opinion that we see around here. How have you been? You have been missed.Drink in the hate.
bluebeastsrt
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I’m good homie.
How was your holiday.?
Tomster
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Ok, stayed home and hunkered down. You?I’m good homie.
bluebeastsrt
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I had just enough family over that the police didn’t have to come a knockin.
stanglife
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My cynical self can’t help but to say - I wouldn’t expect anyone on the Ford payroll to suggest that an outgoing model is better in any way than the incoming one....or to really say anything bad at all about the current car.
Also I have to believe both cars HAVE been run on the same day by the same ^^driver - so why not publish it? Seems a little self-serving to use that metric to discredit 3rd party testing while never providing that data, when they have it.
That said, I have no doubt the 500 is faster. It takes an already fast car and adds a ton of HP along with the quickness/smoothness of the DCT. The weight is like having a fat passenger in your 350 - it’s still going to get around the track just fine.
Preference between the cars is personal and subjective but one is definitely faster than the other. Consumables will be higher on the 500 but if you bought a car to do a lot of track days, you should have expected and planned for this..bench racing this stat doesn’t make much sense.
Also I have to believe both cars HAVE been run on the same day by the same ^^driver - so why not publish it? Seems a little self-serving to use that metric to discredit 3rd party testing while never providing that data, when they have it.
That said, I have no doubt the 500 is faster. It takes an already fast car and adds a ton of HP along with the quickness/smoothness of the DCT. The weight is like having a fat passenger in your 350 - it’s still going to get around the track just fine.
Preference between the cars is personal and subjective but one is definitely faster than the other. Consumables will be higher on the 500 but if you bought a car to do a lot of track days, you should have expected and planned for this..bench racing this stat doesn’t make much sense.
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