2018 whipple cal. pulley experimenting

[olaosunt]

Do you have a catch can ?

I finally had the one from UPR installed .
I am wondering if the inconsistency I saw at times in KR when I ran the 3.625 pulley /race gas /octanium/93 might have been due to blow by oil messing with the octane .Happened with both whipple and PBD tune but never when I ran 5 gallons of 98 plus boostane/octanium /PBD race gas tune
I did see some inconsistencies when I ran VP 100 and some octanium /race has tune but I think that VP 100 may have been old - no one had been buying as the pump was broke
It seems the more octane I start with ,the less inconsistent -there would be times I would see +KR on a pull and then see -KR the next pull usually with less octane ....of course the +KR could be false .
The E85 tune has been solidly consistent

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[Roh92cp]

Do you have a catch can ?

I finally had the one from UPR installed .
I am wondering if the inconsistency I saw at times in KR when I ran the 3.625 pulley /race gas /octanium/93 might have been due to blow by oil messing with the octane .Happened with both whipple and PBD tune but never when I ran 5 gallons of 98 plus boostane/octanium /PBD race gas tune
I did see some inconsistencies when I ran VP 100 and some octanium /race has tune but I think that VP 100 may have been old - no one had been buying as the pump was broke
It seems the more octane I start with ,the less inconsistent -there would be times I would see +KR on a pull and then see -KR the next pull usually with less octane ....of course the +KR could be false .
The E85 tune has been solidly consistent

I've had issues with oil from day one with these motors. First time I seen it was when I installed thew whipple motor had 4k and the stock upper intake had oil all in it. After whipple install I used the whipple catch can that sat on the breather and it didn't do much oil was still getting inside the whipple. I then changed and spent big money on the UPR catch can for whipple setups and same thing still oil all inside the system. I don't think any of theses system really do much to keep oil out. I'm looking into either vent both valve covers to large catch can box with large filters on it, but with this there would be no draw of vacuum on the crankcase. Or maybe I'll do the Moroso 52210 crankcase exhaust scavenging system which welds to angled fitting just past the collector where vacuum is highest and this will draw on the crankcase and scavenge all oil and crap from the crank. The Moroso exhaust scavenging seems to be the best option as all crap gets burnt and the crank is under vacuum.

Edit: Also I said motors. Motor that came from factory at 11K OPG failure took the motor out. New crate motor I have now still lots of oil in the intake so I doubt it's excessive blow by on both motors.

 

[engineermike]

Do you have a catch can ?

I do not. I'm from the side that thinks they are a gimmick. I know it's a hot topic and I'd rather not turn this thread into that debate, but I don't think that enough oil comes through that system to affect octane. I check the oil consumption regularly and neither of my 5.0's used more than a quart of oil in 10,000 miles between changes. That would be a gas/oil ratio of about 2000:1, where 2-cycles run typically 32:1.

I do see some variation from one run to the next. In fact, when I log a pull through multiple gears, the KR might be different from one gear to the next. I can't say for sure what the cause is, except that maybe the combustion process just isn't that consistent in the base case. I had some high speed cylinder pressure log data (like >1000 cylinder pressure data points per revolution) and you would be shocked how much it changed from one cycle to the next.

 

[Roh92cp]

I do not. I'm from the side that thinks they are a gimmick. I know it's a hot topic and I'd rather not turn this thread into that debate, but I don't think that enough oil comes through that system to affect octane. I check the oil consumption regularly and neither of my 5.0's used more than a quart of oil in 10,000 miles between changes. That would be a gas/oil ratio of about 2000:1, where 2-cycles run typically 32:1.

I do see some variation from one run to the next. In fact, when I log a pull through multiple gears, the KR might be different from one gear to the next. I can't say for sure what the cause is, except that maybe the combustion process just isn't that consistent in the base case. I had some high speed cylinder pressure log data (like >1000 cylinder pressure data points per revolution) and you would be shocked how much it changed from one cycle to the next.

Yeah your right!! sorry to dump my catch can story here.

 

[engineermike]

Ok, added Test 11. This was the same as Test 10 but I again halved the concentration of Boostane to about 8 oz to 16 gallons.

Test 1: 3.875 pulley/stock tstat, 93 octane, 86 deg IAT, Max KR: 0.9, Max timing: 18, timing at 6500: 17.5, timing at 7400: 15.5

Test 2 (new cal): 3.875 pulley/stock tstat, 93 octane, 82 deg IAT, Max KR: -0.4, Max timing: 17.5, timing at 6500: 17, timing at 7400: 17.5. Car seems pretty happy on 93 with this pulley and cal.

Test 3: 3.75 pulley/160 tstat, 93 octane, 95 deg IAT, Max KR: 0, Max timing: 17, timing at 6500: 17, timing at 7400: 16.5. Note that IAT was hotter than test 2 and boost higher, but only lost 1 deg.

Test 4 (new cal): 3.75 pulley/160 tstat, 93 octane, 85 deg IAT, Max KR: 2.2, Max timing: 16.5, timing at 6500: 15.5, timing at 7400: 14.5. IAT was cooler so I wonder if this was a bad tank of gas.

Test 5: 3.75 pulley/160 tstat, 6 oz Boostane to 16 gallons 93, 90 deg IAT, Max KR: 0, Max timing: 17.5, timing at 6500: 17.5, timing at 7200: 16.5. Clearly, it was happier than test 4.

Test 6: 3.75 pulley/160 tstat, 12 oz Boostane to 16 gallons 93, 77 deg IAT, Max KR: -0.9, Max timing: 18, timing at 6500: 18, timing at 7400: 17.5. Seems like doubling the Boostane helped.

Test 7 (new cal): 3.75 pulley/160 tstat, 93 octane, 85 deg IAT, Max KR: 1.7, Max timing: 17.5, timing at 6500: 17, timing at 7400: 15. KR up and timing down due to no Boostane and higher IAT. Very similar to Test 4, as it should be, because only the cal changed since then.

Test 8: 3.75 pulley/160 tstat, 93 octane, 55 deg IAT, Max KR: 2.1, Max timing: 16.5, timing at 6500: 16.5, timing at 7400: 14.5. This was intended to be a baseline for the tank of gas before Test 9 changes. It was very close to test 7 in spite of 30 deg colder IAT.

Test 9: 3.625 pulley/160 tstat, 32 oz Boostane to 16 gallons 93, 70 deg IAT, Max KR: -0.6, Max timing: 18, timing at 6500: 17.5, timing at 7400: 17.5. Clearly, the large dose of boostane more-than-offset any increase in knock due to the pulley change. Note timing is 1.5-2.5 deg higher in spite of the smaller pulley and hotter IAT.

Test 10: 3.625 pulley/160 tstat, 16 oz Boostane to 16 gallons 93, 56 deg IAT, Max KR: -0.4, Max timing: 18, timing at 6500: 17.5, timing at 7400: 18. Surprisingly, with this pulley it looks like the car was just as happy on 16 oz as it was on 32 oz Boostane. This is just the info I was after with this test. Also note these results were very similar to Test 6, which makes sense because Test 6 was about 1 psi less boost and less concentration of Boostane.

Test 11: 3.625 pulley/160 tstat, 8 oz Boostane to 16 gallons 93, 59 deg IAT, Max KR: -1.1 (5th) or 0.2 (6th), Max timing: 17.5 (both), timing at 6500: 17.5 (5th) or 16.5 (6th), timing at 7200: 17.5 (5th). In 5th it lost traction, so the data is questionable. However, my experience is the higher gears get more KR and less timing, so the 6th numbers were a little lower and I couldn't run it all the way to redline. I guess what I learned is that the 3.625" pulley is probably borderline with only 8 oz Boostane in the tank. When I say borderline, I mean it's pretty close to making max power....but there looks to be plenty of room for safety KR.

I had planned on putting a bigger pulley back on it, but Test 11 seems to indicate it's at least worth a shot logging the 3.625 on 93. For the record, the Whipple manual recommends 95 octane for this pulley for max power. The Boostane mixing chart says I should be at 98.5 or so in this tank, so I guess it all lines up.

 

[olaosunt]

Thanks again for doing this .
Any concerns about how well the boostane is mixing .
Do you add it the tank ?
Before fill up or after ?

 

[PC 2015]

I use to add before then go to the gas station on my corner or add at the station before I would pump to let it mix

 

[engineermike]

Ya, I think putting the boostane in first then fueling up is better for mixing.

 

[Roh92cp]

Nice work Mike, and your 3.5" pulley is on the way.

 

[PC 2015]

Hey Mike I thought whipple said we cant use 160/170 thermostats with whipple tune?

 

[engineermike]

I think they retain the stock tstat for emissions reasons.

 

[PC 2015]

I think they retain the stock tstat for emissions reasons.

So I'm assuming your is work and diffrents in temps?

 

[Roh92cp]

Hey Mike I thought whipple said we cant use 160/170 thermostats with whipple tune?

Unless something has changed I've talked with Dustin on this and he says it's not a problem to use a lower temp T Stat, however the cal will turn on the fans using the stock settings so it's not really optimal in that regard.

 

[engineermike]

We don’t have a direct reading of water temp so I can’t say for sure how they changed. I watched the cht before the switch for a baseline but didn’t understand how they worked so my baseline didn’t do me much good. The cht seems to be somewhere between the average gas temp in the cylinder (function of load) and the water temp. The cht reacts quickly to load changes while water temp should be steadier. That said, at steady state it will be around 200-205. My buddy’s shows 210-220 with the stock tstat in similar conditions.

 

[engineermike]

Aaaaand added Test 12. This was the same as Test 11 but straight 93, no Boostane:

Test 1: 3.875 pulley/stock tstat, 93 octane, 86 deg IAT, Max KR: 0.9, Max timing: 18, timing at 6500: 17.5, timing at 7400: 15.5

Test 2 (new cal): 3.875 pulley/stock tstat, 93 octane, 82 deg IAT, Max KR: -0.4, Max timing: 17.5, timing at 6500: 17, timing at 7400: 17.5. Car seems pretty happy on 93 with this pulley and cal.

Test 3: 3.75 pulley/160 tstat, 93 octane, 95 deg IAT, Max KR: 0, Max timing: 17, timing at 6500: 17, timing at 7400: 16.5. Note that IAT was hotter than test 2 and boost higher, but only lost 1 deg.

Test 4 (new cal): 3.75 pulley/160 tstat, 93 octane, 85 deg IAT, Max KR: 2.2, Max timing: 16.5, timing at 6500: 15.5, timing at 7400: 14.5. IAT was cooler so I wonder if this was a bad tank of gas.

Test 5: 3.75 pulley/160 tstat, 6 oz Boostane to 16 gallons 93, 90 deg IAT, Max KR: 0, Max timing: 17.5, timing at 6500: 17.5, timing at 7200: 16.5. Clearly, it was happier than test 4.

Test 6: 3.75 pulley/160 tstat, 12 oz Boostane to 16 gallons 93, 77 deg IAT, Max KR: -0.9, Max timing: 18, timing at 6500: 18, timing at 7400: 17.5. Seems like doubling the Boostane helped.

Test 7 (new cal): 3.75 pulley/160 tstat, 93 octane, 85 deg IAT, Max KR: 1.7, Max timing: 17.5, timing at 6500: 17, timing at 7400: 15. KR up and timing down due to no Boostane and higher IAT. Very similar to Test 4, as it should be, because only the cal changed since then.

Test 8: 3.75 pulley/160 tstat, 93 octane, 55 deg IAT, Max KR: 2.1, Max timing: 16.5, timing at 6500: 16.5, timing at 7400: 14.5. This was intended to be a baseline for the tank of gas before Test 9 changes. It was very close to test 7 in spite of 30 deg colder IAT.

Test 9: 3.625 pulley/160 tstat, 32 oz Boostane to 16 gallons 93, 70 deg IAT, Max KR: -0.6, Max timing: 18, timing at 6500: 17.5, timing at 7400: 17.5. Clearly, the large dose of boostane more-than-offset any increase in knock due to the pulley change. Note timing is 1.5-2.5 deg higher in spite of the smaller pulley and hotter IAT.

Test 10: 3.625 pulley/160 tstat, 16 oz Boostane to 16 gallons 93, 56 deg IAT, Max KR: -0.4, Max timing: 18, timing at 6500: 17.5, timing at 7400: 18. Surprisingly, with this pulley it looks like the car was just as happy on 16 oz as it was on 32 oz Boostane. This is just the info I was after with this test. Also note these results were very similar to Test 6, which makes sense because Test 6 was about 1 psi less boost and less concentration of Boostane.

Test 11: 3.625 pulley/160 tstat, 8 oz Boostane to 16 gallons 93, 59 deg IAT, Max KR: -1.1 (5th) or 0.2 (6th), Max timing: 17.5 (both), timing at 6500: 17.5 (5th) or 16.5 (6th), timing at 7200: 17.5 (5th). In 5th it lost traction, so the data is questionable. However, my experience is the higher gears get more KR and less timing, so the 6th numbers were a little lower and I couldn't run it all the way to redline. I guess what I learned is that the 3.625" pulley is probably borderline with only 8 oz Boostane in the tank. When I say borderline, I mean it's pretty close to making max power....but there looks to be plenty of room for safety KR.

Test 12: 3.625 pulley/160 tstat, 93 octane, 68 deg IAT, Max KR: 0.4 (4th) or 1.6 (5th), Max timing: 16.5 (4th) or 17 (5th), timing at 6500: 16.5 (5th) or 15.5 (6th), timing at 7300: 15 (6th). In 5th it lost traction, so the data is again questionable. Looks like it lost about 1 deg of timing vs the 8 oz dose of Boostane. With only 15-15.5 deg of timing from 6500 to 7500, it's probably not optimum power on straight 93, but it appears as though it's not dangerous to the engine. I would also comment that tests 8 and on are done at cooler IATs which should result in less KR and more timing.

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