2017 Ford Mustang will outperform Chevy Camaro in every way

[jaja6009]

I was waiting for the Camaro pricing just in case I wanted to give GM a try. If the Camaro came out with something I couldnt say no too there was a possibility of me jumping ship.
Looks wise I think the car looks just like the old model. On GMs build a Maro they had the 15 close to the 16. And with the little picture they have the car looks way too much the same.
Power wise I liked it. LT1 motor with an 8 speed please.

I knew that the SS would be more expensive than a GT as they always are.
BUT, in the end my plan is to buy a base car and build it. The pricing was just not doing it for me. And yes I see that alot of options come with the Camaro base, but as of right now I am still planning on a Stang.
Right now sucks, It is the first time since 1994 that I dont own a Stang. And while I save money and try to make up my mind for a Base GT or a GT350 there are rumors of a future GT500, and even a Mach 1 that will make this choice even harder.
This summer sucked without going to the drag strip. Boring....

The choice could be easier if the Stang would address the wheelhop and halfshafts, oil pump gears and cam sprockets from the factory. Its just making me have to save up money to cover it if I get a base GT since a blower will be making a home on the car.

As of right now the Stang base car is too great of a deal for me to say no to especially with X plan or the ability to maybe even beat Xplan with my dealer who tends to give me good deals since I have been a repeat customer.

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[thePill]

When you give a $2K range, its not that hard to be within that.

Everything is subject to change, keep that in mind when you hear the final weight estimate.

In my opinion, a $39,995 2SS was only possible if the basement MSRP was met. Even then, the 2SS comes with all options pretty much standard.

Content won, those that said "Mark my words" on a $35,000 MSRP are history. Those that said a 110 inch wheelbase and 63 inch track wasn't happening are gone...

The weight won't be any different...

I am THE most accurate source for pre-official Camaro info. I beat Camaro6 by months in some cases.

They originally had a 3708lbs SS I'm sure. However, content ruled and they won't get the 200lbs they promised.

In fact, they probably lost as much as the Mustang gained. Just looking at the new equipment and I can tell you that.


I gave you guys the target range and the final number was literally right in the middle. Chevy kinda confirmed my original estimate by releasing a $36,500 basement figure to the media. Sadly, that figure was exceeded by $800. Although, they still came in $800 under the window so...

The 2SS price is unfortunate but they chose to load the car standard. It will not be 200lbs lighter than the 2015 2SS. I'm sorry, you've been had...

Other than that, any attempts to demean thePill character now is merely attempting to discredit the most accurate contributor in the damn Internet. Hell, my figures are even closer to real world than the manufacturers. You need to ask yourself, how many people are unhappy with the MSRP...


...how many are unhappy because I was right?

 

[ZaneWayne]

Everything is subject to change, keep that in mind when you hear the final weight estimate.

In my opinion, a $39,995 2SS was only possible if the basement MSRP was met. Even then, the 2SS comes with all options pretty much standard.

Content won, those that said "Mark my words" on a $35,000 MSRP are history. Those that said a 110 inch wheelbase and 63 inch track wasn't happening are gone...

The weight won't be any different...

I am THE most accurate source for pre-official Camaro info. I beat Camaro6 by months in some cases.

They originally had a 3708lbs SS I'm sure. However, content ruled and they won't get the 200lbs they promised.

In fact, they probably lost as much as the Mustang gained. Just looking at the new equipment and I can tell you that.


I gave you guys the target range and the final number was literally right in the middle. Chevy kinda confirmed my original estimate by releasing a $36,500 basement figure to the media. Sadly, that figure was exceeded by $800. Although, they still came in $800 under the window so...

The 2SS price is unfortunate but they chose to load the car standard. It will not be 200lbs lighter than the 2015 2SS. I'm sorry, you've been had...

Other than that, any attempts to demean thePill character now is merely attempting to discredit the most accurate contributor in the damn Internet. Hell, my figures are even closer to real world than the manufacturers. You need to ask yourself, how many people are unhappy with the MSRP...


...how many are unhappy because I was right?

Again. When you give a huge range, you'll be "right." Chevy didn't give number about price like they did with wright. If they're lying about it, I'll gladly say you were right. I'll even put it in caps lock haha. But if you're wrong.....you better own it.

 

[347CobraII]

The choice could be easier if the Stang would address the wheelhop and halfshafts, oil pump gears and cam sprockets from the factory. Its just making me have to save up money to cover it if I get a base GT since a blower will be making a home on the car.

.

You sound like MMR about engine parts. In stock form there good only when supercharged some have had issue. You just want Ford to do some of the work for you. Just about every IRS I've seen wheelhops to some degree. I do believe one of vendors running there car with stock 1/2 shafts in there drag racing program. Wheel hop breaks parts even with upgrade parts it's called SHOCK loading

 

[thePill]

Again. When you give a huge range, you'll be "right." Chevy didn't give number about price like they did with wright. If they're lying about it, I'll gladly say you were right. I'll even put it in caps lock haha. But if you're wrong.....you better own it.

I gave the range after Camaro6 let people believe in a $35,000 1SS.

I gave you a basement and a ceiling, it ending up right in the middle. I can't help you guys out anymore than that.

I can give you the ranges that was provided to debunk the $35,000 claims here and there though... Chevy told the media $36,500 and I had even heard a $2000 increase from last year. $2000 would have been right at 2015 MSRP's w/Dest. I assumed all that was figured in so, it's not a mistake on my part...

I'm sorry the 1SS was $800 more than I said the lowest it would be. I am also sorry the 2SS shattered $39,995. Chevy f@cked up, not me... I was assured it would not surpass $39,995 by those that like to brag.

I could care less about a 2SS, it is not the performance model they are boasting about.

I also gave a 3780-3820lbs curb weight range too... What do you want to bet the same thing happens here?

 

[thePill]

Don't forget, they specifically said "model for model" it would be 200lbs less on many, many occasions.

As it seems right now, both 1SS and 2SS have failed that target. They removed 200lbs from the Camaro yes... but they also put 110-130lbs back in...

Marketing one half and not the other


133lbs from the BIW is a majority of your losses. The LT1 mitigates 65lbs of that, the 2 engine, trans and diff coolers, dual knee airbags. That 133lbs is gone brother...

You are only really looking at 75-95lbs of savings in total.

 

[ZaneWayne]

Don't forget, they specifically said "model for model" it would be 200lbs less on many, many occasions.

As it seems right now, both 1SS and 2SS have failed that target. They removed 200lbs from the Camaro yes... but they also put 110-130lbs back in...

Marketing one half and not the other


133lbs from the BIW is a majority of your losses. The LT1 mitigates 65lbs of that, the 2 engine, trans and diff coolers, dual knee airbags. That 133lbs is gone brother...

You are only really looking at 75-95lbs of savings in total.

I see what you're saying. But it sits on a much lighter platform than the fifth gen. Just the fifth gen platform alone was heavy. You haven't even mentioned anything about that. I would agree with you if it say on the existing platform.

 

[jaja6009]

You sound like MMR about engine parts. In stock form there good only when supercharged some have had issue. You just want Ford to do some of the work for you. Just about every IRS I've seen wheelhops to some degree. I do believe one of vendors running there car with stock 1/2 shafts in there drag racing program. Wheel hop breaks parts even with upgrade parts it's called SHOCK loading

The only way Im buying a GT is if a blower goes on it. And of course I want Ford to do some of the work for me. Less work for me. I want a car that isnt a garage or dyno queen. I want a car I can take to the drag strip or blast around on back roads and not end up stranded or with a blown motor. I know I gotta pay to play, but I would like to have weak areas fortified as best as can be. I dont want a 600rwhp car that Im scared to get on. And if Ford makes it easier for me to reach my goal all the better. But Im still gonna complain when a new model year comes out and the same weak areas are still there. Thats why the GT350 is way too tempting for me. I could actually keep it bone stock and would be happy with it.

 

[Todd15Fastback]

The only way Im buying a GT is if a blower goes on it. And of course I want Ford to do some of the work for me. Less work for me. I want a car that isnt a garage or dyno queen. I want a car I can take to the drag strip or blast around on back roads and not end up stranded or with a blown motor. I know I gotta pay to play, but I would like to have weak areas fortified as best as can be. I dont want a 600rwhp car that Im scared to get on. And if Ford makes it easier for me to reach my goal all the better. But Im still gonna complain when a new model year comes out and the same weak areas are still there. Thats why the GT350 is way too tempting for me. I could actually keep it bone stock and would be happy with it.

600rwhp is not likely to cause issues with your OPGs. Should last a long healthy life with the right tune.

 

[Trackaholic]

With an extra 30 HP and loads of torque over the Mustang, as well as more tech, I think GM feels justified in charging more. I suspect the weight will be similar to the Mustang. The performance will be quite a bit faster though, and that is what GM will be pushing. They may not mention Ring times, but they will be pushing the performance angle.

Ford will instead be pushing the emotional angle. The fact that it is an icon, the nostalgia, the very elegant exterior coupled with the fun interior. Ford may highlight the performance of the GG350 more, but I think the regular Mustang won't be as fast as the Camaro, so they'll downplay the pure performance numbers.

I also think GM did not do enough with the Camaros exterior (or maybe they did enough, but in the wrong ways). From some angles the Camaro looks great IMO, but from most, it just isn't working for me. Maybe it will be different in person, but I'm not sure the exterior compares favorably against the Mustang. The interior looks very good, but there are aspects I do not like (the air vents and tacked-on display bug me).

Anyhow, I don't think the pricing is too off-base considering what you get. It really will be interesting to see how the performance stacks up, and how Ford responds.

-T

 

[thePill]

UAW is threatening to strike, it will begin in September.

Possible Camaro delay...

 

[ZaneWayne]

UAW is threatening to strike, it will begin in September.

Possible Camaro delay...

I read that the other day. Something about Buick is importing a new SUV right?

 

[speedracermustangfan]

I'm also interested in seeing how ford responds at the gt/ss level. If there's an update in the works or some sort of track pack, I might go for that over the gt350. A 2017 gt with a power bump and track package for 40k would have me interested. If ford keeps the gt where it's at then it's gt350/focus rs for me.

 

[thePill]

I see what you're saying. But it sits on a much lighter platform than the fifth gen. Just the fifth gen platform alone was heavy. You haven't even mentioned anything about that. I would agree with you if it say on the existing platform.

Here is the issue, the removed 133lbs from the BIW vs. the 5th Gen. The BIW is the platform. Sure, that's 133lbs lost and that's good... BUT, we see at least 100lbs of that coming back in LT1/Tremec and coolers alone. We got knee airbags, Infotainment, new electric seats, seatbelt bags...

The majority of their claimed 200lbs contained the 133lbs they lost in BIW. It doesn't matter if the 5th Gen was heavy, the LT1, Improved Tremec, Coolers, Airbags, Interior... all ate into that 133lbs rather quickly...

The IRS (25lbs lighter), new MacP (suppose to be slightly lighter, 5lbs total), 10lbs for the dash, maybe 20lbs for the panels and glass, maybe 10lbs for the rotors...

Exhaust? Probably heavier, especially the NPP. Driveshaft and halfs should be the same or heavier to deal with the new engine... Gas tank saved maybe 15lbs...


I just can't find the weight... because it's not there...

 

[ZaneWayne]

Here is the issue, the removed 133lbs from the BIW vs. the 5th Gen. The BIW is the platform. Sure, that's 133lbs lost and that's good... BUT, we see at least 100lbs of that coming back in LT1/Tremec and coolers alone. We got knee airbags, Infotainment, new electric seats, seatbelt bags...

The majority of their claimed 200lbs contained the 133lbs they lost in BIW. It doesn't matter if the 5th Gen was heavy, the LT1, Improved Tremec, Coolers, Airbags, Interior... all ate into that 133lbs rather quickly...

The IRS (25lbs lighter), new MacP (suppose to be slightly lighter, 5lbs total), 10lbs for the dash, maybe 20lbs for the panels and glass, maybe 10lbs for the rotors...

Exhaust? Probably heavier, especially the NPP. Driveshaft and halfs should be the same or heavier to deal with the new engine... Gas tank saved maybe 15lbs...


I just can't find the weight... because it's not there...

BIW isn't the platform.

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