2015 Mustang GT PP vs. 2015 Chevrolet Camaro SS 1LE

[DivineStrike]

I'm sorry friend, but tires could have possibly made things equal between the two on the track, but I seriously doubt a tire change would have made the mustang faster than the 1le. That's with mustang being lighter, having a power edge, and a higher redline which should suite better on track performance.

Also, agree to disagree on the ecoboost. The v6 is the base, and the ecoboost should have shot for the foreign competition (geneis r-spec, 370z, m235i, audi s3 just to name a few)

Here's a nifty article about the new focus rs coming to the states, it will utilize the same 2.3 ecoboost motor, and sport more power than the 310hp offered in the s550 mustang.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/go/future-cars/2016-ford-focus-rs-first-details-exclusive-insider-info

I didn't say tires would get the Mustang to beat the 1LE but if that's all it needed to match the 1LE that would mean the chassis is much better. As all it would need is to have a just as well tuned springs and shocks to handily beat the 1LE. This is however a big what if, something we may never know unless someone does the comparison on tires. Tires are the easiest variable to make equal. If you started adding aftermarket suspension you change things into an apples to oranges comparison.

And sorry but the EB thing being base isn't even an opinion. Yea the v6 is there but it's only there for keeping a certain price point to bring you into the dealer, just to upsale you on the EB4. Was never even intended to be brought back but was for the reason I stated along with fleet sales. The EB's intent is to be the Base model for everyone. Again sorry you don't want to accept that, but it is the truth. Even in the European market, it's only the EB and 5.0. Again, base engine. However given all the recent moves in this new generation. The 2.7 EB can be very much expected to fill that role you wanted of the EB4. It's can almost be a certainty due to the appeal it would have to just the market outside of the states. I'm sure Japan and European countries would be all over the 2.7EB like white on rice.

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[Brent302]

To express my discontent with the product that ford has given us. I would hope important people are reading the threads full of disappointment, and will strive to make a change. I want to buy an s550 mustang, just not this one.... Maybe ford has a plan, and will pull a 2010/2011 like others have mentioned. If not, then that's why I'm participating in this public forum. To complain in the hopes that I am heard. Ever hear the saying, "squeaky wheel gets the grease"?

You're welcome...

Rule #1....."but if you exhibit behavior reflecting incessant negativity towards the car for which this site is dedicated, then this site is not for you and your posts and/or account will be subject to removal by the staff. The forum will absolutely not be used as a soapbox for those who are only interested in complaining about or bashing the S550 Mustang or Ford Motor Company. This is especially true for new members who sign up just to voice their grievances."

 

[akwal07]

To express my discontent with the product that ford has given us. I would hope important people are reading the threads full of disappointment, and will strive to make a change. I want to buy an s550 mustang, just not this one.... Maybe ford has a plan, and will pull a 2010/2011 like others have mentioned. If not, then that's why I'm participating in this public forum. To complain in the hopes that I am heard. Ever hear the saying, "squeaky wheel gets the grease"?

You're welcome...

I'm 100% sure they will pull a 10/11 on the 15/16 now after seeing these results. I'm assuming Ford thought the 15 has enough features to get it to sell and left the improved performance for the next year. Its still a great car and better than the 14..it'll get the camaro next year

 

[DivineStrike]

Rule #1....."but if you exhibit behavior reflecting incessant negativity towards the car for which this site is dedicated, then this site is not for you and your posts and/or account will be subject to removal by the staff. The forum will absolutely not be used as a soapbox for those who are only interested in complaining about or bashing the S550 Mustang or Ford Motor Company. This is especially true for new members who sign up just to voice their grievances."

Brent, that rule is solely intended at comments bashing the Car. Not inherent displeasure with a cars performance or reviews they might get. He isn't bashing this car, therefor not going against the rules

I'm 100% sure they will pull a 10/11 on the 15/16 now after seeing these results. I'm assuming Ford thought the 15 has enough features to get it to sell and left the improved performance for the next year. Its still a great car and better than the 14..it'll get the camaro next year

Honestly I don't have that much faith in Ford to do that anymore. Their vision for the basic non Hi-Po Mustang has changed from the last generation to being more of a world car with less focus on performance. If they can beat it's competitors with the Hi-Po model, I think that will satisfy their competitive needs, leaving us GT owners left out to dry.

I don't plan on trading in my Mustang in a year or anything like that, even when the new Camaro comes out. I will probably test drive it and see how I feel about it, as by then the nostalgia i have for the Mustang might be over. I'll have to see how things play in the long run. If Ford doesn't up their game in 2017 in response to it's competition, this overall experience might leave a sour taste in my mouth and I may just stop getting Fords all together if this is how they treat their loyalee's in regards to performance vs the competition. If they up their game in 2016 significantly like they did in 2011. It will almost be a certainty, that I don't buy Ford. As that is just a spit in the face to customers IMO. I fully expect some kind of improvement the following year to a major change, but anything as significant as what they did in 2011 should be made the year they make a big design change or at least a couple years after one. 2017 or later would be a very good time frame to really up the ante.

Again I agree the Mustang is a great package, but I really don't want the Mustang GT to become the GTI of the pony world. Jack of all trades, master of none.

 

[Brent302]

Brent, that rule is solely intended at comments bashing the Car. Not inherent displeasure with a cars performance or reviews they might get. He isn't bashing this car, therefor not going against the rules

Read the last sentence

"This is especially true for new members who sign up just to voice their grievances."

 

[Todd15Fastback]

For the folks complaining and only looking at the 1.5 second loss around the track, did you even hear the comments made by Randy about the car and how it drives, the engine, shifter, brakes, etc? Just curious...I know a couple of you have as you have shared comments but most of the unhappy folks only look at the track time.

 

[Brent302]

For the folks complaining and only looking at the 1.5 second loss around the track, did you even hear the comments made by Randy about the car and how it drives, the engine, shifter, brakes, etc? Just curious...I know a couple of you have as you have shared comments but most of the unhappy folks only look at the track time.

Nope people only care about one time around pne short track the 9000 other positives are ignored

 

[speedracermustangfan]

Rule #1....."but if you exhibit behavior reflecting incessant negativity towards the car for which this site is dedicated, then this site is not for you and your posts and/or account will be subject to removal by the staff. The forum will absolutely not be used as a soapbox for those who are only interested in complaining about or bashing the S550 Mustang or Ford Motor Company. This is especially true for new members who sign up just to voice their grievances."

I see you've studied the rulebook :clap2:

You don't have to participate in this thread, if it upsets you maybe you should go take that new blue beauty for a test drive and leave the discussion to people with un biased opinions.

My days here are numbered folks... I feel my account fading away into banned oblivion already. Its so dark.... Goodbye old friends....

 

[OppoLock]

^^^oppolock I agree it's better to attack everything as a whole, but from the sound of Randy and the other guys review. stiffer springs and shocks along with A wider square setup would dial the Mustang in very nicely compared to stock.

Aside from suspension woe's. Their comments on grip, whether it's understeer or the oversteer, are directly related to having a staggered setup over a square one. If it were more square, I believe the rearend kicking out would be a lot more progressive and controlled as it is with the 1LE. This particular character trait of the mustang I don't think can be tuned out with just changing around suspension bits. This is due to the weigh bias IMO. Most cars that i've see do well on the track with a staggered setup are mid-rear engined or rear engined cars.

I don't think I can agree with you... It's not like the GT PP runs much of a staggered setup to begin with; 255F/275R as a ratio is far more aggressive than a lot of high powered production models. If anything, the 1LE and Z28 are anomalies for OEM-spec RWD cars coming square from the showroom floor, and they're definitely not the only cars out there with progressive oversteer and strong front end grip. And weight balance would only be part of the equation. The only productions cars that come with an actual neutral 50/50 split or anything rear-biased are typically front-mid engined at the most. Again, plenty of FR cars out there with front-end weight bias, a strong front end, and efficient torque application with progressive limits and a neutral balance. Bumping up the front tire sections to square it out won't do anything to make rear break away more progressive.

A great example of a car that went from mid-corner incompetence to relative mastery is the outgoing W204 C63. We have one in the family... the pre-facelift dunce model. During its pre-facelift stage (MY08-MY11), it was only relatively competent. But I can tell you from firsthand experience, it was not polished. Understeer upon entry, weight noticeably jumping from one corner to another, and excessive, squirrely oversteer on exit. You never feel confident driving it at the limit. But the MY12+ facelift is a completely different animal. It's far more balanced and confidence-inspiring than it has any right to be, with better steering to boot. What did Benz change up? They revised the spring and damper rates, the bushings, and threw more negative camber at it. It felt like a different car.

I really do think that the issue comes down to the suspension and tire compounds here. Why does the PP even use P Zeros in the first place? They're hardly competitive tires in the extreme performance summer category, even for the money. I wonder if Ford has some kind of existing supplier contract with Pirelli... weren't these tires the same ones offered on the S197 TPs?

Long time lurker, first time poster. I have been very excited about the 2015 s550 mustang. I read rumors of high horsepower numbers, better than boss performance, and all around improvement. When the first tests came out, I was very disappointed in the slower straight line performance specifically. However, even the initial skid pad and handling tests showed very little promise. The 1le is the natural target and competitor for the 2015 gt pp, and ford should have trounced it. Sadly they did not...

People on this thread are coming up with silly arguments to defend their decision to buy the 2015. I don't want to buy bolt ons, and tires, and suspension mods to make the car perform on the level of its main competitor. I want a car that will beat the competition right out of the box. It looks as if I'm not the only one here that thinks this way. Ford really did screw the pooch with this car. The only saving grace will be if they offer SIGNIFICANT improvements for the 2016 model in the form of direct injection, better tires, and better suspension. I can see them leaving a bit to be desired with the exhaust note, and bolting an exhaust on my car wouldn't be a problem, I've done it before and I'd do it again. However, setting the overall performance bar so low is not acceptable in my eyes. Even the ecoboost is a little too tame imo, that motor can produce some serious power/torque. I was hoping the ecoboost could give the old ss a run for its money (in the 1/4 at least).That's something that would have grabbed some serious attention from a very wide audience. Ford could have attracted so many more buyers if they just put a bit more effort into this car. More people would have considered trading their current cars, cancelling their orders on upcoming models, and jumping their favorite brands ships to join the mustang clan. Isn't that what ford wanted? I hope ford high ups, mustang engineers, and bean counters look at these threads and hear the cries for more. You let me down ford...

Congratulations on earning the Most-Melodramatic-First-Post award! The level of entitlement glowing from this is unreal. Only in 2014 would we see a post like this.

Where can you find an overall package like the S550? In any trim level? Nowhere - not for its combination of refinement, interior quality, looks, and performance. The car is a wholesome improvement over the S197 and Zeta Camaro; the slider between refinement and performance improvements just doesn't land where yours does.

And to be fair, I think a big part of the problem is the amount of hype and Ford's marketing. So I can't entirely blame you.

I'm sorry friend, but tires could have possibly made things equal between the two on the track, but I seriously doubt a tire change would have made the mustang faster than the 1le. That's with mustang being lighter, having a power edge, and a higher redline which should suite better on track performance.

Also, agree to disagree on the ecoboost. The v6 is the base, and the ecoboost should have shot for the foreign competition (geneis r-spec, 370z, m235i, audi s3 just to name a few)

Here's a nifty article about the new focus rs coming to the states, it will utilize the same 2.3 ecoboost motor, and sport more power than the 310hp offered in the s550 mustang.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/go/future-cars/2016-ford-focus-rs-first-details-exclusive-insider-info

The EB is being marketed as the base car with the V6 being a carryover which I don't see lasting for all that long. The EB is nowhere near the price points of those cars you listed. What's the point of that article ? Let me pull a good chunk of it and paste it for you:

". . . since the 2.3-liter Ecoboost is easily capable of more than its 310 hp output in the Mustang, which was dictated more by fuel economy concerns than anything else, the RS is free to pump out between 325 and 350 hp. The higher figure is more likely. This is because as a low-volume, niche product that doesn't compete with the Mustang GT, there's no reason to hold the Focus RS back."

 

[tbonez3858]

I'm 100% sure they will pull a 10/11 on the 15/16 now after seeing these results. I'm assuming Ford thought the 15 has enough features to get it to sell and left the improved performance for the next year. Its still a great car and better than the 14..it'll get the camaro next year

I really hope you are right

The SS550 is a brand new car and they obviously need more time with it. When the Camaro first came out it was a DOG! The Camaro turned it around and is an all star now. The S550 has all the right tools to make a GREAT car...

 

[mustang#16]

Why? Because it lost to a 1LE on a road track test? LOL.....Are you a pro-racer? that car is ugly as hell and the interior is hideous. Listen to the praise Randy gave it. Put stiffer springs and better tires...

Good lord...people get bent out of shape...This is like who has the bigger e-penis.

:clap2: Agreed. Ford has been saying for months they never used the Camaro or Challenger as targets. So, there is no reason to suddenly be shocked that the GT PP is not faster on the track than the 1LE. If you always have to have the fastest stock car, you'll piss off a lot of money buying a new car every year or two.

Enjoy the 2015 Mustang. It's arguably the best-looking performance car out there. It's very refined. Beautiful interior. Great car to live with. But if you're buying it primarily as a track car, either mod it (as has always been done to Mustangs), wait for 2016 to see if Ford has more performance (they probably will), or buy something else.

As for me, I can't wait to take delivery of my 2015 GT. It's beautiful, it has way more power than I need, it has more handling ability than I'll ever use, and I have no need to prove anything on the street.

 

[carguy]

I really hope you are right

Holy crap....nothing but praise was given about the S550 drivetrain. The "10/11" reference is really just the Coyote motor in the 11 right after the facelift in the 10. The S550 motor is solid, all that needs tuned relative to the 1LE are the dampers/springs and fatter sticky rubber.

To be honest these are both things that I was going to do anyways on my GT PP, but it does hurt a little that we don't have the bragging rights over such simple things that Ford could have done.

To echo a few others, I really would love to see a other test where both cars have equal dollars to spend on springs/dampers and wheel/tire. To make it fair of course.

 

[Viperbluecobra]

I can't find the motor trend video

 

[tbonez3858]

For the folks complaining and only looking at the 1.5 second loss around the track, did you even hear the comments made by Randy about the car and how it drives, the engine, shifter, brakes, etc? Just curious...I know a couple of you have as you have shared comments but most of the unhappy folks only look at the track time.

The S550 package is vastly superior to the 1LE with all things considered. The 1Le is a current benchmark but I'm looking six months past it. Chevy is Chevies competitor. They don't go benchmark the M3 or the 911. They don't go look at cars that aren't even in their class for competition. They best their own outgoing model and have said so in their reviews. What concerns me is that Chevy will be looking to best the 1le with the SS model. The 1le will likely look to best the ZL1 or come close. Chevy is playing for keeps...Look at their current line up. They aren't doing just enough and spending their money to appease a global audience...They are looking for blood.


Today the GT PP is a smart choice in six to eight months it's a new game and THAT is what I'm concerned about....

 

[cosmo]

The 1LE Camaro outperforms the S550, there is no real doubt. It'll be interesting to see if Chevy can top the current 1LE. Judging by the small weight loss of the C7 Corvette, and that's switching to an all aluminum chassis, I doubt the alpha Camaro will be losing too much in terms of weight if any at all. If the new 1LE improves the track times of the current 1LE, then it has been a total loss for Ford. If it doesn't, then Ford will overtake it when the refresh comes more than likely.

That's the other thing, I highly doubt the refresh is coming in 2016, more like 2018. The 2010/2011 model wasn't a relaunch, it was still a S197, just with an upgraded powertrain. This is a relaunch onto a new platform, think 2004/2005.

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