2015-2016 Tech Pack and Base GT350 Cooler Solution Discussion

[Diana]

Ford advertising

These ads are misleading
Ambient air temp also adds to the issue
If your heading to the Homestead speedway you can expect a hotter track and shorter run times before going limp.
This is far from a "performance" car.
The hype from the dealers was incredible, collector car, limited availability. If the dealers all knew the technical details then why did they mostly order tech package cars and charge more over sticker than the track package.
If the issue was simply that you needed to upgrade the transmission and add the differential cooler then it comes down to more money, but it's more complicated than that. These new components won't integrate with the car's brain, without substantial re engineering. The non OEM equipment although the available it hasn't been tested enough to know how it will affect the life span of the other components. Why would you have all of the track applications included if this isn't a trackable car?
What is still an overriding concern is the recall, they clearly have the parts as there are 2017s which are being sold not subject to the recall. So until the recall gets fixed you really can't push the car hard for fear of increasing oil pressure and begging for a failure.
Also heard that the engine high revs and vibration may be loosening the motor mounts. This was something that hasn't been widely discussed but was rumored by Shelby.
If Ford really wanted to be proactive they could have communicated with owners
And offered a cost effective solution, instead it's been like pulling teeth and not all encompassing.
Furthermore they said larger throttle body and track key were coming. Neither of these are and if they were they wouldn't work on the tech models with the cooling issues unresolved, only would have made them worse.
Their only exciting news was the rear seat delete or rear seat kit for the R.

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[barstowpo]

In the video, the base car is described while a car laps around the race track in the background. Then the technology car is positioned as a step up from the track pack car for people that don't track as often or as seriously.

 

[Voodooo]

:repost:

 

[Minn19]

These ads are misleading
Ambient air temp also adds to the issue
If your heading to the Homestead speedway you can expect a hotter track and shorter run times before going limp.
This is far from a "performance" car.
The hype from the dealers was incredible, collector car, limited availability. If the dealers all knew the technical details then why did they mostly order tech package cars and charge more over sticker than the track package.
If the issue was simply that you needed to upgrade the transmission and add the differential cooler then it comes down to more money, but it's more complicated than that. These new components won't integrate with the car's brain, without substantial re engineering. The non OEM equipment although the available it hasn't been tested enough to know how it will affect the life span of the other components. Why would you have all of the track applications included if this isn't a trackable car?
What is still an overriding concern is the recall, they clearly have the parts as there are 2017s which are being sold not subject to the recall. So until the recall gets fixed you really can't push the car hard for fear of increasing oil pressure and begging for a failure.
Also heard that the engine high revs and vibration may be loosening the motor mounts. This was something that hasn't been widely discussed but was rumored by Shelby.
If Ford really wanted to be proactive they could have communicated with owners
And offered a cost effective solution, instead it's been like pulling teeth and not all encompassing.
Furthermore they said larger throttle body and track key were coming. Neither of these are and if they were they wouldn't work on the tech models with the cooling issues unresolved, only would have made them worse.
Their only exciting news was the rear seat delete or rear seat kit for the R.

This is dead on, on a number of issues with Ford and the GT350.

If a lot of us tech pack owners knew that car couldn't even get through the first session of a HPDE there would probably be a lot more leftover 16 tech packs on the lot. As I know most of us here would've passed. A few people at my dealer that are longtime Ford employees and that I respect are still stunned how this has all gone down with the GT350 tech/base cars/oil cooler line recall.

 

[Diana]

For the record I am co owner of the 2016 Shelby GT 350 tech pack car.
I am not an attorney, rather I work in the medical field.
I would gladly pay the difference between a 2016 and a 2017 to get what they changed in the later.
When we spoke to SVT their solution was to change the transmission and add the cooler that was 5400 without the labor
The other option was a cooler but no pump, and the pump would have to go thru a separate switch and gauge. They suggested a Weldon pump and to go to a race shop to have it installed.
A non OEM differential cooler? Which one fits? Again switch and gauge needed.
Then you have a PCM that can't monitor all of your changes.
So if anyone were looking to buy a used 2016 how likely would they be to really want this model knowing all of the controversy unless you sold it at a huge loss? Add this loss to the over ADM dealer cost already paid for the 16 and the additional over sticker price for the 2017 and your near R cost or over.
In order to have made a knowledgeable choice you either needed to be an engineer or you needed to rely heavily on what Ford and or dealer disclosed.
Most of the info really came from owners who experienced the problem and from some helpful folks at Shelby
Reading several technical issues you might install things thinking u are good only to learn that your flow rates are too high, causing too little time to cool or aeration of fluid, and the routing of your tubes can be an issue as well plus to install you will need custom brackets drilling or cutting
Again if not done correctly will diminish the value of the car and shorten the life span of both your transmission and rear end, since these items will not be under warranty it's an expensive proposition
Can this also create a dangerous scenario?
Do we know exactly why the oil lines were recalled? Could u have something similar happen to your transmission cooler and or differential cooler?
Is vibration part of the problem? If so how often will you need to put her up in the air and take off the covers to check all your connections?
Frustratingly Ford says things that are incomplete inaccurate or don't know and the craziest things they have said from the front office were as follows:
We will have a field rep meet you at the dealership to verify that the car doesn't have the cooler! Really! Run the VIN and see what parts you used! And oh yes in December after getting the recall letter, the front office had the nerve to state that there were no open recalls on the vehicle, even though the VIN pops up on the Ford owners site and NTSB, and when given that info they refused to correct their letter or position and still stayed firmly behind their claim that there is no recall. Dealer also verified car under recall.
So do we have a problem Houston?
Yes and let's be clear about 2400 techs were built and sold, Ford got over 186 million dollars from us and if you paid over sticker 10K then the dealers and Ford got another 24 million
That's over 200 million!!! And the difference between the 2017 and 2016 is a mere 7.2 million, they certainly can come up with a retrofit that could make financial sense for everyone, yes they might loose some cause I don't think any one of us would pay another 10k to fix it, but if they said we can do it for 5k with all OEM stuff then problem solved, we would still be over the 2017 by 2k but then safe and happy, and still backed by Ford.
Can they really be so stupid? Or so rigid not to understand how they have handled this?
Clearly if only lower management were in the know then I can understand but this has been brought to the direct attention of the Front Office, members of management and the Board of Ford. Shelby has clearly stated this is a Ford and the ultimate build decisions were Ford's.

 

[Caballus]

That statement is present in the owners manual supplement. March 2016, GR3J 19B146 AA.

Note: For track day use with a GT350 Base model or GT350 with the Technology Package, we recommend that you add aftermarket transmission and differential coolers. Your vehicle is equipped with electronic controls that if required reduces power and limits RPM in order to control power train temperatures.

Thanks. I'm good with the March 16 version of the Owner's supplement (car was built in Feb and I picked it up from the port on 1 April). Was wondering about links to early advertising vice post-purchase literature. Thanks again.

 

[Epiphany]

I've seen all that, none of which is "advertising" Perhaps I'm misunderstanding your point in that sentence. If your point is that the dealer had all the knowledge about the cooler situation (which is arguable in itself, the dealers are next to clueless and never read such materials) it's no point at all (the point is moot) because that would have no bearing on what the consumer knew prior to purchase. What it really boils down to is that while many knew they were buying a car without the coolers, they did not know about the limp mode issue.

Like a trainwreck that you can't stop I figured you'd respond that way, that I would respond in kind, and then how you would respond, etc, etc. It really is a waste of time to have to go through this but I understand.

Advertising or "the activity or profession of producing information for promoting the sale of commercial products or services" isn't limited to simply what you may have seen. And my point in that sentence (which you shortened to try to make your own point) mentioned the inclusion of information from the dealer. So yes, the dealers did have in their possession all the requisite information and data that was provided to them by Ford to educate themselves and the consumer to aid in the sale as well as in actually ordering a GT350 from Ford. Nowhere did I state that every buyer properly educated themselves on every possible scenario with respect to different option packages. The point was with regard to previous mention of deception (at the corporate level) and what I was touching on was that the dealers were indeed supplied with all the data. Ford did make an effort, at the dealer level at the very least, to clarify the content of each option group as well as which one to choose to meet a customers needs. I agree, most dealers are clueless and the GT350 to them is nothing more than a cash cow.

"What it really comes down to" is that assumptions were made by both dealers as well as customers. Assumptions that I agree make for a good argument (such as that a GT350 shouldn't go into protection mode before a GT does, etc). In my own case, when I saw that coolers were available with one group but not another I researched further as I wanted navigation as well as coolers/Recaros. I figured it would be easier to buy a Track Pack car and add the nav/stereo later than to buy a Tech car and try to add all the mechanical hardware. So I did just that and added the 8" audio system. I shared what and how I did it here.






For Tech Pack owners that wanted the FRP trans/cooler kit I put them in touch with a vendor that got the ball rolling and was only charging $2700 for the Track Pack/R transmission (and that $2700 price is now what Autonation is asking as well). I've had a number of discussions with 50Deep about following through with his transmission upgrade and like to think I had a positive influence on his decision as well.

I got the ball rolling with the FORscan thread too which has opened the door for Tech Pack owners to enable certain gauges, etc, that they previously couldn't access.

So understand that I don't have a snarky take or approach to any of this. My concern is solution focused as opposed to simply dwelling and complaining. I understand the angst and have appreciation for those that can admit some fault in their purchasing decision with respect to the issue at hand. It isn't a one way street.

Seems like a scab has been picked off...apologies again to the community for anything I said that might have triggered...

I think it good that Ford sees the concern regarding the cooler fiasco. The wounds aren't simply going to go away and Ford needs to understand and learn from this.

If the dealers all knew the technical details then why did they mostly order tech package cars and charge more over sticker than the track package.

Also heard that the engine high revs and vibration may be loosening the motor mounts. This was something that hasn't been widely discussed but was rumored by Shelby.


Furthermore they said larger throttle body and track key were coming.

Their only exciting news was the rear seat delete or rear seat kit for the R.

As mentioned, dealers looked at all of this and saw one thing - money. And they assumed that the bulk of their customers would choose luxury over a stark audio package with oil coolers/seats for skinny people. In their defense, Ford put them in the position of making this choice by optioning out the car the way they did in '15/'16.

I haven't heard of any motor mounts "loosening" but someone did mention that people at Shelby said that accessory pullies had come loose. Personally, I take everything that comes from Shelby in Vegas with a huge grain of salt and have very little respect for them from a technical standpoint.

Ford Racing hinted at the TracKey/throttle body, not Ford. Then again, discovering through FORscan that there was consideration given to the TracKey in the factory module programming shows some effort was shared, initially anyway. This was a huge disappointment for me as I assumed it would happen and I shouldn't have.

As to the rear seat delete, that one was tricky too. I corresponded with Ford Racing and their initial intent was to not offer the delete kit. This came down from the top. Thankfully, there are some good people there that listened. My hope is that the part has been profitable and that they will continue to offer it.

 

[dron_jones]

"What it really comes down to" is that assumptions were made by both dealers as well as customers. Assumptions that I agree make for a good argument (such as that a GT350 shouldn't go into protection mode before a GT does, etc). In my own case, when I saw that coolers were available with one group but not another I researched further as I wanted navigation as well as coolers/Recaros. I figured it would be easier to buy a Track Pack car and add the nav/stereo later than to buy a Tech car and try to add all the mechanical hardware. So I did just that and added the 8" audio system. I shared what and how I did it here.

So understand that I don't have a snarky take or approach to any of this. My concern is solution focused as opposed to simply dwelling and complaining. I understand the angst and have appreciation for those that can admit some fault in their purchasing decision with respect to the issue at hand. It isn't a one way street.

+1^This :clap2:

Well said sir.

 

[Minn19]

[MENTION=19066]Epiphany[/MENTION]

1. Q. Did your non tech each radio cause your car to become basically mechanically limited in any way either on the track or during street driving?

My answer. No it didn't so I don't see this is an analogical argument.

2. Has Ford or any dealer stated that the tech pack car would most likely go limp 10-15 minutes into one session at a HPDE or on a freeway on a very hot day? Or that it wouldn't even match a much less expensive regular GT when it came to cooling.

My answer. I highly doubt it, but I obviously don't know for sure. Again, had any of us had this knowledge I highly doubt any of us would've bought the tech pack.

3. I and others appreciate your help in this manner. But, a couple of things on that. It took forever for FP to come out with the promised fix and when they did it wasn't very clear. One is an incomplete kit. The second one is very expensive even with the starting/much reduced $2700 price tag (that isn't neccasarily available to everyone). This doesn't include labor etc. Also as has been mentioned Ford is not standing behind it with a warranty. Last, it does't even include the differential cooler which FP and Ford have given up on. Not exactly ideal as I would think even you would admit.

4. You keep saying it is tit for tat. Then why do you keep poking the bear? You have no skin in this and are not going to see it our way just we are not going to see it how you and others that think like you.

 

[dron_jones]

[MENTION=19066]Epiphany[/MENTION]

1. Q. Did your non tech each radio cause your car to become basically mechanically limited in any way either on the track or during street driving?

My answer. No it didn't so I don't see this is an analogical argument.

2. Has Ford or any dealer stated that the tech pack car would most likely go limp 10-15 minutes into one session at a HPDE or on a freeway on a very hot day? Or that it wouldn't even match a much less expensive regular GT when it came to cooling.

My answer. I highly doubt it, but I obviously don't know for sure. Again, had any of us had this knowledge I highly doubt any of us would've bought the tech pack.

3. I and others appreciate your help in this manner. But, a couple of things on that. It took forever for FP to come out with the promised fix and when they did it wasn't very clear. One is an incomplete kit. The second one is very expensive even with the starting $2700 price tag. This doesn't include labor etc. Also as has been mentioned Ford is not standing behind it with a warranty. Last, it does;t even include the differential cooler which FP and Ford have given up on. Not exactly ideal as I would think even you would admit.

4. You keep saying it is tit for tat. Then why do you keep poking the bear? You have no skin in this and are not going o see it our way just we are not going to see it how you and others that think like you.

1. But the point he was making was that when he made the choice to buy the car he decided which change would be easier to do in the aftermarket so he went with track pack. This is the same decision many people who ordered track pack made. I was in line for a track pack in 2016 before my allocation fell through and was using the same logic. The availability of coolers and the fact that this was a track car seemed to imply it was something that was needed. For leather seats and nav (which i could use my phone) it wasn't worth taking a chance on the other cars capabilities or lack there of

2. I don't think ford would ever state that but the crux of this whole discussion is based on expectations and what is considered reasonable. I think everyone who bought a tech package knew that in some capacity it would be less capable and more at risk of overheating than a track pack. The question is really what is an acceptable amount of time? Should it be able to last 10 min, 20, 30? 1hr? when does it become acceptable?

3. I think it would be good for ford to come out with a full solution but i don't think it needs to be "cheap", track pack guys had to pay 6 grand in options to get what they needed, would it be fair to them if the aftermarket from FP came out with a solution that gives them all the coolers of the track pack for a very low price?

 

[Minn19]

1. But the point he was making was that when he made the choice to buy the car he decided which change would be easier to do in the aftermarket so he went with track pack. This is the same decision many people who ordered track pack made. I was in line for a track pack in 2016 before my allocation fell through and was using the same logic.

2. I don't think ford would ever state that but the crux of this whole discussion is based on expectations and what is considered reasonable. I think everyone who bought a tech package knew that in some capacity it would be less capable and more at risk of overheating than a track pack. The question is really what is an acceptable amount of time? Should it be able to last 10 min, 20, 30? 1hr? when does it become acceptable?

3. I think it would be good for ford to come out with a full solution but i don't think it needs to be "cheap", track pack guys had to pay 6 grand in options to get what they needed, would it be fair to them if the aftermarket from FP came out with a solution that gives them all the coolers of the track pack for a very low price?

Response to 1. I to gathered as much info as I could, but decided to the opposite of @Ephiphany. I searched here and other Forums and found out that FP was currently working on a solution when I was looking to buy a GT350 last June of 2016. This info was backed up by people I trust at my dealer. Who by the way are just as stunned and angry at Ford as I and a a lot of others are here. It makes them look very foolish and like they lied as well. They also thought that since it was a Ford OEM solution they would back it with a warranty. Had they told me or had I known it would be such a debacle, there is no way I would've purchased a tech pack. I think it is very reasonable that a car advertised as the most track capable Mustang ever should last at least as long as a regular GT on the track.

Response to 2. The crux of the matter is Ford withholding this info is the false advertising claim. Many have had their cars go into limp mode on a very hot day on the freeway. This moves it past false advertising and into a different realm entirely.

Response to 3. For the millionth time, I and many others don't expect a cheap fix. But, if I am going to spend 5-6 grand on the coolers it should at least include a full OEM fix for both the tranny and the differential. Also be backed up with a warranty. I think that is reasonable, don't you?

 

[dron_jones]

Response to 1. I to gathered as much info as I could, but decide to the opposite of @Ephiphany. I searched here and other Forums and found out that FP was currently working on a solution when I was looking to by a GT350 last June of 2016. This info was backed up by people I trust at me dealer. Who by the way are just as stunned and angry at Ford as I and a a lot of others are here. It makes them look very foolish and like they lied as while. They also though since it was Ford OEM solution they would back it with a warranty. Had they told me or had I known it would be such a debacle there is no way I would've purchased a tech pack. I think it is very reasonable that a car advertised as the most track capable Mustang ever should last at least as long as a regular GT on the track.

Response to 2. The crux of the matter is Ford withholding this info is the false advertising claim. Many have had their cars go into limp mode on a very hot day on the freeway. This moves it past false advertising and into a different realm entirely.

Response to 3. For the millionth time, I and others don't expect a cheap fix. But, if I am going to spend 5-6 grand on the coolers it should at least include a full OEM fix for both the tranny and the differential. Also be backed up with a warranty. I think that is reasonable, don't you?

I understand the frustration with the situation but i still have a difference of opinion on where responsibility lies and to what extent. Rather than continue to inflame the conversation based on these differences in opinions i will just leave it as is.

My initial frustration with this situation was more around the original class action lawsuit. Based on my career i have a large distaste for some lawyers and those handling class action law suits are the lowest of the low and closest to ambulance chasers. In most situations they are the only ones who end up seeing anything meaningful come out of them.

 

[Diana]

Ford, Ford Racing and SVT are all Ford, they all have different stories to tell!
Some are more informed and willing to give more information.
Recently however folks who were helpful aren't forth coming with anything new, they have also stated that some items they aren't working on any more.
For example the larger throttle bodies seems they didn't give enough bang for the buck. The track key project has been canceled.
And now sadly with the PCM and gauge issue seems that they aren't moving very rapidly with the differential cooling issue and one engineer suggested that it wasn't a priority any more as it was going to be too expensive, not suggesting that the new transmission cooling fix wasn't expensive if you went full Monty with a new one.
Sad they got 200 million and really don't care!

 

[JN66]

I still can't believe this is going on...give your car back.

For those in Canada - use CAMVAP. I did. Ford had to buy my car back. I got a 2017. The process isn't difficult, you just cannot be a muppet. I represented myself, was calm, cool and informed. Wasn't an issue. Took less than 2 months from start to finish.

I should mention, in order for this to happen, your car will have had to have gone into limp mode. Easier if it has gone into limp mode in the street. Even easier if Ford flew someone out, had them jump in the car with you and it hit limp mode in the summer in under 20 minutes.

Or, install the coolers yourself, save yourself 2 months. Also a solid option.

 

[Minn19]

I understand the frustration with the situation but i still have a difference of opinion on where responsibility lies and to what extent. Rather than continue to inflame the conversation based on these differences in opinions i will just leave it as is.

My initial frustration with this situation was more around the original class action lawsuit. Based on my career i have a large distaste for some lawyers and many times those in class action law suits are the lowest of the low and closest to ambulance chasers. In most situations they are the only ones who end up seeing anything meaningful come out of them.

I've never sued anybody in my life and I hope I never have to as I share the same feelings as you do. But sometimes it is neccasary and so are lawyers. I'm not saying that may be the case here, but I don't know yet.

You can have a difference of opinion all you want, but there are a few facts here.

1. Ford absolutely had/has the data on the tech pack cars and withheld that info from the customer. All the while advertising this car with a lot of ambiguity built in, but constantly beating the " the most track capable Mustang ever" drumbeat.

2. Ford/FP promised a fix and completely botched not only the time it took to roll it out the options, but even how to obtain these options. While they say in the manual to obtain both of the coolers, but don't even offer a differential solution?

Also for me and a lot of others there is other issues clouding our feelings. My car has already had its engine replaced and of course I still have to go back for the often talked about oil cooler line recall. This isn't even bringing into the many other quality issues I've had my car in for. The biggest one being a hole under the back window that would leak during a rain storm or car wash.

Ford showed the world that they could build an awesome fun DD with unbelievable track performance that could run with the best of the Germans and others. Unfortunately they are also showing the world they can't back this up from a mechanical, quality control or customer service standpoint.

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