2015-2016 Tech Pack and Base GT350 Cooler Solution Discussion

[Diana]

Kinda sad that the one person trying to help u all was banned over erroneous allegations of a spam e mail.
Truth be known the tech package is a lot different and that there is no plug and play solution, otherwise u could spend a few dollars and add the OEM transmission and OEM differential cooler. But you will learn that the PCM lacks the wire ports not just a reprogramming issue as well as different gauges. So adding non OEM equipment will void any warranty for damage to connected items,etc.
By not listening you have lost a great resource and advocate who has spent hours researching this and finally coming to the conclusion that legal action would force Ford to a discussion and cost effective solution, not looking for a free ride.

Rachel Furst,Esq
Grossman Roth
Miami
305-442-8666
That is his contact who can explain to anyone the process

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[Steve68]

I'm travelling in Boston (Norwood actually, pronounced Naw-wood in these parts), can I answer any legal questions?

 

[Epiphany]

I think Ford has clear liability, at minimum, for false and/or deceptive advertising.

1)...There was nothing in the advertising materials that limited the claims of the great track-capability of the car to the "Track" versions.

2) And, this is really critical in false advertising law, sophisticated, well-informed car and/or track consumers WERE, IN FACT, DECEIVED.

3) Ford admitted the problem by putting coolers on all models in 2017, as it should have done from the start.

Interesting perspective. I agree that Ford should have been a bit more specific, clearly. With respect to #1...There were distinct statements made with respect to tracking necessitating the additional coolers (you can parse here and I agree there was sometimes a lack of specificity, absolutely). The differences between option groups was made clear in both advertising and the content was clearly listed with respect to ordering certain option packages at the dealer level. Regarding the car being the most track capable Mustang ever built, Ford's media releases distinctly referred to the R as being the relevant model.

https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/news/2015/01/12/shelby-gt350r-mustang.html

Again, I agree that Ford didn't do a stellar job in downplaying non-cooler equipped vehicles in terms of capability or capacity. You find it in a number cases in other media releases, much of them here.

https://media.ford.com/content/ford...s/cars/mustang/2016-gt350-350r-press-kit.html


#2....Doesn't deception require proof of intent? As such, the deceiver made the conscious effort to commit fraud? Just curious about your legal perspective.


#3....Historically, Ford has included content in later models of a given platform as well as removing content as model years pass. To the laymen, it would make sense from a profitability standpoint to take advantage of economies of scale via making previously option-only content, standard. Which Ford did, and then added the exact difference in price to the '17 models. One could argue that this, in essence, mitigated the cooler "scandal" but doesn't automatically imply that the move was evidence that the conscious effort to deceive (#2) and now cover up, drove the decision. But it does to you? I'm genuinely interested in your point of view.

 

[Tank]

Kinda sad that the one person trying to help u all was banned over erroneous allegations of a spam e mail.
Truth be known the tech package is a lot different and that there is no plug and play solution, otherwise u could spend a few dollars and add the OEM transmission and OEM differential cooler. But you will learn that the PCM lacks the wire ports not just a reprogramming issue as well as different gauges. So adding non OEM equipment will void any warranty for damage to connected items,etc.
By not listening you have lost a great resource and advocate who has spent hours researching this and finally coming to the conclusion that legal action would force Ford to a discussion and cost effective solution, not looking for a free ride.

Rachel Furst,Esq
Grossman Roth
Miami
XXXXXXXXX
That is his contact who can explain to anyone the process

Wow, this is like a twilight zone episode...
Did you join this forum just to make this post?
What happened to the "great resource's" posts? Did he/she pull them or the mods?



"It is a dimension as vast as space and as timeless as infinity. It is the middle ground between light and shadow, between science and superstition, and it lies between the pit of man's fears and the summit of his knowledge. This is the dimension of imagination. It is an area which we call the Twilight Zone."

 

[Voodooo]

I agree the car should of always been like the 2017 offerings. But they also offered base, tech, track and R. Track and R mean what they represent. Tech was for people that wanted leather and upgraded electronics. Base was the lower cost just to get the looks and sound without the extra cost or for a track rat that planned to go with coil overs or other ideas of his own. I also understand that most dealers ordered the tech thinking it would be wanted more because most people want the electronics and other interior options. I was one of the few that ordered the car to my needs and wants the very first day the order banks opened. It's called a track pack and that's what I wanted (I really wanted a R but couldn't find one when I ordered) I also remember thinking before the time I ordered that the track pack would be without rear seat, radio and no AC. Basically a R but with non R splitter, spoiler and wheels. If ford offered this as an option I would of loved it. And that is what I originally thought I ordered. Only to learn days or weeks later what the actual car came with. Like many I learned little by little what the gt350 was from the Internet and "false news" not every website had its facts straight on exactly ford was offering. But as I said I knew I was either buying a Track pack or a R. I knew the track and r packs came with coolers and alcantara seats and that was enough for me to purchase.

 

[Steve68]

The differences between option groups was made clear in both advertising...

Please share this advertising content and source. I've never seen any such thing.

 

[Epiphany]

Then you haven't been following this thread very closely. These should help.


[ame]

Just a few examples in addition to the media releases I linked above. Again, I agree that there is ambiguity and that Ford should have provided more clarity.

 

[Caballus]

With respect to #1...There were distinct statements made with respect to tracking necessitating the additional coolers (you can parse here and I agree there was sometimes a lack of specificity, absolutely).

Do you have a link that leads to ford's distinct statements that say tracking requires additional coolers? That would help greatly.

I've looked all over and all I've been able to find are options packages and owner's manual info supplement, which is expected to be read after purchasing. I ran also ran into a dead end with the video, as it is for sales reps, not something that proactively provided to the general public.

Thanks in advance.

 

[mkonrad]

Do you have a link that leads to ford's distinct statements that say tracking requires additional coolers? That would help greatly.

I've looked all over and all I've been able to find are options packages and owner's manual info supplement, which is expected to be read after purchasing. I ran also ran into a dead end with the video, as it is for sales reps, not something that proactively provided to the general public.

Thanks in advance.

That statement is present in the owners manual supplement. March 2016, GR3J 19B146 AA.

Note: For track day use with a GT350 Base model or GT350 with the Technology Package, we recommend that you add aftermarket transmission and differential coolers. Your vehicle is equipped with electronic controls that if required reduces power and limits RPM in order to control power train temperatures.

 

[Steve68]

Then you haven't been following this thread very closely. These should help.

Just a few examples in addition to the media releases I linked above. Again, I agree that there is ambiguity and that Ford should have provided more clarity.

I've seen all that, none of which is "advertising" Perhaps I'm misunderstanding your point in that sentence. If your point is that the dealer had all the knowledge about the cooler situation (which is arguable in itself, the dealers are next to clueless and never read such materials) it's no point at all (the point is moot) because that would have no bearing on what the consumer knew prior to purchase. What it really boils down to is that while many knew they were buying a car without the coolers, they did not know about the limp mode issue.

 

[Tank]

Seems like a scab has been picked off...apologies again to the community for anything I said that might have triggered...

 

[Steve68]

Seems like a scab has been picked off...apologies again to the community for anything I said that might have triggered...

It's s thin scab. I told myself I wasn't going to get involved in these discussions any more, so now I'm going out to water my rock wall in hopes that it will grow taller. That sounds about as productive.

 

[TDC]

Funny this discussion has had a hemorrhoidal flare up coinciding with Groundhog's Day. :doh:

 

[Minn19]

Seems like a scab has been picked off...apologies again to the community for anything I said that might have triggered...

Nothing to apologize for, it is a sore subject and one that will likely never end. Ford could've helped end it, but their "solutions" to fix the problem probably didn't help fix that sore spot either.

 

[Hack]

#2....Doesn't deception require proof of intent? As such, the deceiver made the conscious effort to commit fraud? Just curious about your legal perspective.


#3....Historically, Ford has included content in later models of a given platform as well as removing content as model years pass. To the laymen, it would make sense from a profitability standpoint to take advantage of economies of scale via making previously option-only content, standard. Which Ford did, and then added the exact difference in price to the '17 models. One could argue that this, in essence, mitigated the cooler "scandal" but doesn't automatically imply that the move was evidence that the conscious effort to deceive (#2) and now cover up, drove the decision. But it does to you? I'm genuinely interested in your point of view.

You are right that the attorneys for Ford in a court case would potentially make those arguments. Whether or not they would convince a jury depends on how talented they are and how talented their opponents would be. However, my opinion is that we as car people and potentially Ford fans did NOT have the information and that Ford could have given us the information.

I know that I for one fully intended to track the car and I was desperately reading every piece of literature I could find trying to decide which version to buy. I didn't even care about any tech features except seats that would be comfortable for me.

Ford deceived me. Despite hours of research, reading and gathering information, I never guessed that the GT350 tech car I bought would be less track capable than a 2015 base Mustang GT. I found that information out about a month after I purchased the car when other people started hitting limp mode on the track.

Again, I agree that there is ambiguity and that Ford should have provided more clarity.

Thanks.

That statement is present in the owners manual supplement. March 2016, GR3J 19B146 AA.

Note: For track day use with a GT350 Base model or GT350 with the Technology Package, we recommend that you add aftermarket transmission and differential coolers. Your vehicle is equipped with electronic controls that if required reduces power and limits RPM in order to control power train temperatures.

Ford should have added: "GT350 base and tech models will reduce power within 10 minutes of track use, even in cool ambient temperatures. The base and technology models may also reduce power during aggressive street use."

Those statements are absolutely true and would have completely prevented all the issues. No one who wanted to track or drive their cars aggressively would have purchased tech or base models. Probably very few would have been purchased.

Seems like a scab has been picked off...apologies again to the community for anything I said that might have triggered...

None necessary. I'm busy researching the rear diff cooling options and I'm mostly angry right now because Ford wants over $300 for a bracket. I'd most prefer to add the OEM parts, but Ford's parts prices are completely obscene. This experience has really soured me on buying a "special" car or even having a new car. I used to hot rod '80s Mustangs and daily drive them until 2011 when the Coyote came out. There's no reason I couldn't keep this GT350 for the next 10+ years and forget about buying newer Fords.

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