2014 Z28 Assault Thread.

[thePill]

Coming Soon... You can view the rulebook yourself here > http://scca.cdn.racersites.com/prod/assets/2013%20GCR-%20January.pdf

Formally STO class, all the "brake" sections are pretty much the same but I will post them anyway because people tend to need all proof. The Z28 is NOT permitted in STO.

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[thePill]

RULES FOR CLASSES GT2, GT3 and GT Lite.

The Z28 is NOT permitted to run in ANY GT class.

Weight penalties for the OEM LS7 equipped Corvette and the other is the restrictions for the crate engine cars. Say hello to a 45mm choke plate after you remove your brakes.

 

[Falc'man]

You're going about this the wrong way. Shouldn't you at least wait until they've released the Z28 before alerting them to the fact they've screwed up? LOL.

When does Camaro go onto the Alpha platform? And how much weight is there to be saved by using that over Zeta?

 

[thePill]

LAST SHOT, T1 IS THE Z28's Class and the Boss 302's

 

[thePill]

You're going about this the wrong way. Shouldn't you at least wait until they've released the Z28 before alerting them to the fact they've screwed up? LOL.

When does Camaro go onto the Alpha platform? And how much weight is there to be saved by using that over Zeta?

This is for the 2014 Z28. The carbon ceramic brake rotors are not permitted in road racing due to the material and size. The "track-ready" car everyone can't wait to get out there and win a world title in, IS NOT PERMITTED IN ROAD RACING. The engineers already screwed up, they designed the car like this from the very beginning. Hard to have a track vehicle when your not allowed on the track.

They treat customers like idiots and it's ignorant for them to continue promising these people a track ready Z28 when the damn thing isn't permitted to run. I don't care about Team Camaro but, there are some people that are going to lay down their money on an empty promise.

 

[thePill]

I'm waiting for someone to say "I'll just race somewhere else"

 

[thePill]

You're going about this the wrong way. Shouldn't you at least wait until they've released the Z28 before alerting them to the fact they've screwed up? LOL.

When does Camaro go onto the Alpha platform? And how much weight is there to be saved by using that over Zeta?

I suspect Chevy will officially release the 6th Gen on September 29th 2016. That is in fact the Camaro's birthday. Chevy will capitalize on a 50th Anniversary model no doubt. My issue is, the anniversary model should be reserved for continuous production. That said, Chevy decided to soak up as much of your money as possible with a 45th. My opinion, anyone who buys a Camaro anniversary model is proudly wearing their badge of failure. Every time I see a 45th I'm reminded of 2002 and the END of the Camaro/Firebird. I'm also reminded that they will readily tarnish such an achievement and honor in the name of the dollar.

The V8 6th Gen Camaro will weigh as much as an AWD V6 ATS. Between 3600-3700lbs. The Alpha chassis was upgraded from the RWD, 4 cylinder compatible frame to a capable V8 (and possibly a SC V8) chassis. At one time, Caddy needed to lose 500lbs but only pulled out about 200-300lbs of that 500. The platform ended up being a bit heavier that desired. Chances are, there will be about 200-300lbs between the Mustang and Camaro.

The issue with the Camaro is, too great of a reduction in size will alienate the current 5th Gen fans. At 3700lbs, that's 200lbs lighter than the current product. 3600lbs is a 300lbs reduction... Anything more than that and your in jeopardy of losing the Camaro's identity completely. Size and weight go hand in hand... You can only reduce so much weight within a standard size.

 

[thePill]

I WOULD SURE HATE FOR SOMEONE TO TAKE CHEVROLET TO COURT FOR FALSE ADVERTISING. ACCORDING TO A LOCAL MARKETING CONSULTANT IN THE PITTSBURGH AREA, THIS IS AN EASY WIN. ESPECIALLY GIVEN CHEVROLET'S TARGET MARKET FOR THE Z28 AND THEIR MARKETING APPROACH.

Advertising is regulated by both federal and state law. Under the law, your ad is unlawful if it tends to mislead or deceive. Your intentions don't matter. If your ad is deceptive, you'll face legal problems even if you have the best intentions in the world. In addition, if your ad contains a false statement, you have violated the law. The fact that you didn't know the information was false is irrelevant.

At this point, Chevy hasn't done anything wrong. They have stated the Z28 is "track-ready", "Specifically for the Track" "Special built to handle a road course" and many other marketing angles for the "Ultimate track Camaro". However, there has been widespread Z28 advertising or marketing in general, steering customers in the wrong direction. An employee misleading a customer is just as bad as an advertisement misleading you. The minute the product hits the showroom... BAM!!! Done-zo... Doesn't make the '99 SVT Cobra incident seem so bad now.

What Chevy needs to do (because someone will sue) is to offer a package or base Z28 that eliminates the expensive AND illegal components before production.

Then again, they just need to find a single class that will take the Z28 and they will get away "Scott" free. Showroom Stock comes to mind... It's a shame you can't trust big corporations. After all the loyalty given on a daily basis, Chevy can't even be honest with it's customers. All because they didn't have a competitive option...

See what the GT500 made them do!!!

 

[thePill]

Let's take some questions tonight shall we? Go ahead person that thinks hs's better than me, your on the air...

I think the "ring" time definitely will be faster than the current Zo6 AND I actually think it will be faster then the ZR1's ring time and because of it being faster than the vettes is all the reasoning in the price...we will not get a confirmed "ring" time until it is so over the top...your cigar is gonna fall out and burn the carpet

Think package not just 600 lbs and 80hp etc...the suspension has never been used in any other gm vehicle. The z28 is gonna punish everything and then the new Z07 and ZR1 will get it all back...the ebb and flow. This is why I worry it's gonna be real expensive.

I actually had to go back and make sure he was referring to the Z28... and he is... Okay...

There are people that don't know sh!t, and then there are people that make sh!t up. BOTH ARE EXTREMELY DANGEROUS... and apparently breeding. First, lets dissect this future Z28 Ring Run. The Z28 running the Ring is going to be optimized specifically for Nurburgring. What that all entails is beyond me but I assure you, this is practiced quite often over there (not just Chevy). The Z28 (and ZL1) is running a cage. Not a roll bar!!! A full cage. You may know this already but most just never think about it. A full cage adds so much structural rigidity that the car running is no longer stock plain and simple. If you just glance at the NASCAR cage specifications, you can see the amount of force every additional bar absorbs. In the end, it ends up being like 40,000lbs per square inch or something. In short, its outrageous. Those that assume or even try to push this full cage over as just a safety precaution is fooling themselves. On entry, a cars curb weight is multiplied by the speed in which it is traveling. Those forces physically alter the suspension geometry. It was argued at one time that the 5th Gen's chassis was already stiff and really didn't benefit from the additional support... My response was "B@llsh!t" There is NO substance strong enough in the world to eliminate chassis flex as they are giving the 5th Gen credit for. If that's the case, no need for that strut tower brace.

Faster than a Z06 AND ZR1!!! 600-700lbs heavier, same power level and relying solely on suspension vs. the Z06. The notion that the Z28 is faster than a ZR1 is.......................

The new Z28 is going to punish everything? WHERE? On Nurburgring? WHO CARES!!! It is far from stock gentleman, FAR FROM STOCK.

Why don't we do a little engineering so it can compete in GS, GTS, GT2 or T1? That would be an accomplishment. This fine young man is correct about the pricing though.

 

[thePill]

Good Morning Mustang Fans!!! Some things to talk about today... Topic? VIR (Virginia International Raceway)

Z/28 guessing will run about 2:56 being slightly faster & handle slightly better

Z/28 will be much faster than that - run by Chevy engineers. Chevy engineers did 2:45 at VIR in the zr1, 2:51.x in the new c7 w/ z51, and 2:52.4 in the ZL1. Z/28 will be faster than the ZL1. Don't use car and driver lightning lap times to compare with what manufacturers run/will run.

Don't use Car & Driver's Lightning Lap, they typically race the cars in traffic and the last two Lightning Laps had rain on 2 or 3 days out of the 5. Even though, C&D's Lightning Lap is very entertaining AND, is a decent picture of where owners might be. A few things you have to keep in mind, these guys are not out to kill themselves to prove anything. C&D gets a production car or at least very close to production. I'm not putting it passed any car maker to add a little pep to the media car. Another reason the magazine's seem to get a better 1/4 mile time and then owners have troubles matching that... In my opinion, it's not worth it. Another thing worth noting, most magazines won't push the car if the suspension isn't comfortable. Motor Trend's Randy Pobst is the only exception to the rule. He tends to push through the rough suspension to get the best lap times. Randy ran the GT500 faster than the ZL1, same track, same day... The Zl1 eventually ran ONE faster lap and that is considered a victory. Whatever...

I believe Chevy will push for a 2:49 or better BUT, C&D won't do any better than the ZL1's 2:58. The Z28 is dangerously uncomfortable and won't inspire confidence to the average editor. The teeth rattling suspension will reflect in those times...

I think the price will be $68k- $72k based on low production numbers, and that doesn't include the dealer mark up's ...

Going on about the MSRP. While I'm not 100% convinced the Z28 will be over $70,000 base price, I do expect a large percentage of the 400-900 Z28's sold will be $70k out the door. The state sales tax will push the cost to the customer up... National average is close to 6% IF it isn't figured into the price already. The new Corvette helps narrow down the MSRP a little more... Looking like a solid $65,000 asking price but will easily option out over $70,000. State Tax is another $3700-$3900... Gas Guzzler Tax? The Z06 barely escapes the tax... The heavier Z28 will not... That's another $1600 at least based on the tax table.

Said and done, could the 2014 Z28 reach $80,000? Without markup? If so, why not option a Boss 302S. It's only $2000 more and legal in all classes it's eligible.

 

[Maestro5.0]

80K?? Wow.

If I could afford it and was in the market for something like this, I would at least wait to see what the GT350 is like. Both the Z28 and Boss 302 will be on outdated platforms very soon.

 

[thePill]

Well, one of my dear readers has brought this to Motor Tread's attention. I doubt they have the courage to imply such a thing without getting Chevy's defense on the topic. I'm glad someone brought it up

You know how I HATE conflict...

A discussion today (or a retort of sorts) with some media brought up the possibility of any REAL competitive racer actually falling for Chevy's Tom Foolery. I did agree, the possibility of a real driver, purchasing a Z28 to race competitively SHOULD be few and far between. I can't imagine someone buying a car without looking at the standard equipment and making sure it's legal.

I don't really see anyone who's serious about track buying into this Z28. Just on curb weight alone eliminates the option in the eyes of many potential buyers.

It seems the only ones really interested is those that don't know any better, those trying to get those that don't know any better to buy one and those that never intend on tracking the car.

I do know this... IF (and that's a BIG IF) Motor Trend brings this to light, it could cause some changes to the standard equipment. Another thing worth mentioning, IF Motor Trend attempts to go public with the fact that Chevy is falsely advertising a product and marketing it specifically to an uneducated market...

...Motor Trend's stock will raise in my book.

Just imagine, journalism based on honesty. A fine place to start this new outlook on media would be to drag out a lying, cheating, stealing corporation and hang them where the other car makers can see. A message to them, obviously stating that customers should not be lied to... Or at least so blatantly...

My PM box is always open to those car makers that would like to do the right thing. Or we can continue to inform potential customers that this "Track-Ready" vehicle isn't "Track Ready". I am eagerly thumbing through the forums, wondering where they might race this Z28

Eagerly searching for the time someone from the other side decides to be honest and up front with THEIR customers. You know, the ones that waited since 2006 to buy one.

Don't hate thePill for bringing this up, it is a fact, NOT my doing. This is solely the responsibility of Chevrolet and the engineers ARE responsible for this crap.

Bring the truth or we'll bring the sword...

 

[ThunderHorse]

Great post ThePill

 

[thePill]

Great post ThePill

Thanks man...

The whole Camaro marketing angle really sucks... Three top tier trim levels for the same exact thing. Initially, the ZL1 was the ULTIMATE track Camaro but was proved otherwise by a solid axle GT500 at half the tracks it was compared to. Then, The 1LE... Again, ULTIMATE track Camaro, this time actually legal AND sanctioned by Chevy in SCCA T2. If Chevrolet met the requirements for competitive racing in the 1LE, then they know damn well the Z28 is not legal in ANY road racing organizations.

They couldn't keep the ULTIMATE track Camaro on the road with MRC, looks like more of these soon

 

[Mach1]

Definitely the most entertaining thread I've seen in a while. :lol:

Spread the gospel bruutha.

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