'18 Mustang Ecoboost PP vs '19 Camaro Turbo 1LE

[Mountain376]

You saw 17 eco's there is no data on the 18's at this time. Mag ride, drive modes, the A10 and extra tq has changed the game.

I can respect your opinion but your on a mustang forum trying to convince us to side with team Camaro. Lol best of luck to you sir.

I realize that. I'm not trying to convince anyone... Just talking cars, honestly. People can stay in their stupor and tunnel-vision, that's fine. Maybe harsh words, but it is what it is. Mustang isn't better than Camaro, the same as Camaro isn't better than Mustang. Mustang, nor Camaro are better than Challenger; however each are better at certain things than the other. But if you want to talk track performance, sorry, but that's where Camaro's design focus is right now - deny it and pretend otherwise all you want, but don't get too butt-hurt when you step foot on track. This isn't to say the others are garbage and incapable.

Your points are valid on the 2018. The A10 applications still are pending a good consensus, mostly with anything other than straight lines. I wont say the extra torque for the EB will be much beneficial in autocross.

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[Hack]

Because those awards also take in to account the other 360 days of the year that you aren't on a track testing the chassis. You aren't really testing a chassis by going down the highway to work.

And I'm not sure which Performance Car of the Year you're looking at, but the Mustang did not win that for R&T and Camaro came in 2nd.

If everyone that reviews it says the chassis is better, I take their word for some strange reason. Obviously there is some debate on which makes the better overall package, but on the chassis front, the Camaro wins.

Looking at just the 4 bangers for each, it's hard to say which would come ahead though. The Eco has a tad better power to weight but they are damn close, Eco's torque might let it get ahead.

So you are going to assume Camaro's chassis is better unless someone says otherwise? I understand your bias. I have never seen anything that proves to me the Camaro chassis is better, so I'm assuming they are roughly equivalent. Ie. I'm a Mustang guy, but not quite as biased as you seem to be.

PCOTY 2016 Mustang won.
Best Driver's Car 2016 I think it was second to a McLaren.

I've also seen a few different comparisons with the latest ZL1 and ZL1 1LE and they also lost to the Mustang. The reviewers just tend to like the Mustang better.

 

[Nagare]

Did you miss that I have a Mustang? It looks better to me and I enjoy driving it, but you can't argue with the conclusion that everyone comes to when comparing the two and that is that the camaro is the better handling car.

For handling (aka suspension and chassis) the Camaro wins. For driving experience, the Mustang wins. That's why you'll see the uniqueness of the GT350/R win out over the crazy cornering of the 1LEs.

 

[Hack]

Did you miss that I have a Mustang? It looks better to me and I enjoy driving it, but you can't argue with the conclusion that everyone comes to when comparing the two and that is that the camaro is the better handling car.

For handling (aka suspension and chassis) the Camaro wins. For driving experience, the Mustang wins. That's why you'll see the uniqueness of the GT350/R win out over the crazy cornering of the 1LEs.

I see what you wrote in your signature.

I completely disagree with your statement on handling. The ZL1 1LE and ZL1 versus GT350R tests show that even with more than 100 hp power advantage the Camaro wasn't much faster on a track. GM on the ZL1 1LE put super stiff springs and shocks in the car, whereas the GT350R is much more livable, but still extremely fast around the track.

I think you are confusing chassis and suspension TUNING with chassis and suspension design/capability. The GT350R Mustang shows what the Mustang chassis is capable of. Ford didn't choose to put super sticky tires, stiff suspension etc. on every model of Mustang. However, the chassis on all the Mustangs is the same.

 

[JohnnyUtah]

I see what you wrote in your signature.

I completely disagree with your statement on handling. The ZL1 1LE and ZL1 versus GT350R tests show that even with more than 100 hp power advantage the Camaro wasn't much faster on a track. GM on the ZL1 1LE put super stiff springs and shocks in the car, whereas the GT350R is much more livable, but still extremely fast around the track.

I think you are confusing chassis and suspension TUNING with chassis and suspension design/capability. The GT350R Mustang shows what the Mustang chassis is capable of. Ford didn't choose to put super sticky tires, stiff suspension etc. on every model of Mustang. However, the chassis on all the Mustangs is the same.

Was there a comparo between the ZL1 1LE and the 350R?

 

[Cardude99]

No I believe just the regular zl1. There was no need. 1le rides like crap off a track. Regular zl1 proved to be faster than the r so no reason to put a 1le against it. It would just be the same result.

 

[Hack]

Was there a comparo between the ZL1 1LE and the 350R?

I'm pretty sure there was, but everything I've seen about the ZL1 1LE is that it sucks for anything but pure track. Kind of like the last Z/28 with overly stiff suspension to make up for the lack of a great chassis.

No I believe just the regular zl1. There was no need. 1le rides like crap off a track. Regular zl1 proved to be faster than the r so no reason to put a 1le against it. It would just be the same result.

What I remember is the ZL1 was slightly faster but the R was still judged to be a better car. So I don't see anything in that comparison to tell me the chassis of one car is significantly better than the other. If anything, I think the Mustang has a slightly better chassis, because between being lighter and having over 100 hp more the Camaro should have beat the Mustang by a significant amount.

 

[greengoblin31]

Responses will be biased, but how will the two compare?
With the Camaro being lighter, it seems that it'll be a blast to drive around the track. Hopefully we can share genuine comparisons.

who cares

they're both missing 5678 :headbonk:

 

[wireeater]

There's not much to compare online but here's a track that the 2016 Camaro Turbo and 2015 Mustang Ecoboost ran on. Same track conditions and it was submitted on the same day driven by the same driver. It appears the EB had a higher average speed and peak. These were non 1LE/PP cars. So considering the 2018's are same chassis just with more power, suspension tuning, wouldn't we expect the EB to still outperform it.

2016 Chevrolet Camaro 2.0T
finished a flying lap of Hockenheim Short
in 1 minute and 16.8 seconds.

Track Hockenheim Short
Type flying start
Vehicle Chevrolet Camaro 2.0T (Mk VI)
Power / weight 275 ps / 1556 kg
Driver Uwe Sener
Time 1:16.800
Peak speed 174 kph (108 mph)
Average speed 122 kph (76 mph)
Air temperature 1 C (34 F)
Track temperature 3 C (37 F)

2015 Ford Mustang Ecoboost
finished a lap of Hockenheim Short
in 1 minute and 15.4 seconds.

Track Hockenheim Short
Type flying start
Vehicle Ford Mustang Ecoboost
Power / weight 314 ps / 1668 kg
Driver Uwe Sener
Time 1:15.400
Peak speed 178 kph (111 mph)
Average speed 124 kph (77 mph)
Air temperature 1 C (34 F)
Track temperature 3 C (37 F)

 

[Grintch]

Who cares? They are the "performance variants" of the lowest performance model.

 

[Hack]

There's not much to compare online but here's a track that the 2016 Camaro Turbo and 2015 Mustang Ecoboost ran on. Same track conditions and it was submitted on the same day driven by the same driver. It appears the EB had a higher average speed and peak. These were non 1LE/PP cars. So considering the 2018's are same chassis just with more power, suspension tuning, wouldn't we expect the EB to still outperform it.

2016 Chevrolet Camaro 2.0T
finished a flying lap of Hockenheim Short
in 1 minute and 16.8 seconds.

Track Hockenheim Short
Type flying start
Vehicle Chevrolet Camaro 2.0T (Mk VI)
Power / weight 275 ps / 1556 kg
Driver Uwe Sener
Time 1:16.800
Peak speed 174 kph (108 mph)
Average speed 122 kph (76 mph)
Air temperature 1 C (34 F)
Track temperature 3 C (37 F)

2015 Ford Mustang Ecoboost
finished a lap of Hockenheim Short
in 1 minute and 15.4 seconds.

Track Hockenheim Short
Type flying start
Vehicle Ford Mustang Ecoboost
Power / weight 314 ps / 1668 kg
Driver Uwe Sener
Time 1:15.400
Peak speed 178 kph (111 mph)
Average speed 124 kph (77 mph)
Air temperature 1 C (34 F)
Track temperature 3 C (37 F)

They are pretty close and if lap time is important to you, the driver will probably be a bigger factor than car.

 

[thehunterooo]

There's not much to compare online but here's a track that the 2016 Camaro Turbo and 2015 Mustang Ecoboost ran on. Same track conditions and it was submitted on the same day driven by the same driver. It appears the EB had a higher average speed and peak. These were non 1LE/PP cars. So considering the 2018's are same chassis just with more power, suspension tuning, wouldn't we expect the EB to still outperform it.

2016 Chevrolet Camaro 2.0T
finished a flying lap of Hockenheim Short
in 1 minute and 16.8 seconds.

Track Hockenheim Short
Type flying start
Vehicle Chevrolet Camaro 2.0T (Mk VI)
Power / weight 275 ps / 1556 kg
Driver Uwe Sener
Time 1:16.800
Peak speed 174 kph (108 mph)
Average speed 122 kph (76 mph)
Air temperature 1 C (34 F)
Track temperature 3 C (37 F)

2015 Ford Mustang Ecoboost
finished a lap of Hockenheim Short
in 1 minute and 15.4 seconds.

Track Hockenheim Short
Type flying start
Vehicle Ford Mustang Ecoboost
Power / weight 314 ps / 1668 kg
Driver Uwe Sener
Time 1:15.400
Peak speed 178 kph (111 mph)
Average speed 124 kph (77 mph)
Air temperature 1 C (34 F)
Track temperature 3 C (37 F)

So the lighter Camaro with the better chassis, owners and profit margins is slower than one of the worst cars on the market? Camaro trolls take another L

 

[PDX.Stang]

So the lighter Camaro with the better chassis, owners and profit margins is slower than one of the worst cars on the market? Camaro trolls take another L

Why is it that when there's a discussion, if someone isn't bending forward for the Mustang, some owners hurl insults & make accusations? Why are some owners insecure & defensive? Why can't it simply be an automotive discussion with varying points of view?

Everyone on Mustang, Camaro, Challenger & even Corvette forums are enthusiasts & it should feel more like a brotherhood. :amen:

 

[wireeater]

They are pretty close and if lap time is important to you, the driver will probably be a bigger factor than car.

But what about the constant "Alpha chassis is superior to the S550"?

A superior chassis wouldn't be -1.4 seconds behind even if it were 2 different drivers and the alpha had the worst driver because "superior" to me would mean that the Camaro would be at least 3+ seconds faster than the Mustang. That comparison had the SAME driver so the margin of error between both runs were probably pretty small.

I imagine that the alpha chassis is probably better when we get into the V8 variants because of how it makes it's power differently and magride, tuning etc. I doubt those the tested one even had mag since it just was a non 1LE.

 

[Hack]

But what about the constant "Alpha chassis is superior to the S550"?

A superior chassis wouldn't be -1.4 seconds behind even if it were 2 different drivers and the alpha had the worst driver because "superior" to me would mean that the Camaro would be at least 3+ seconds faster than the Mustang. That comparison had the SAME driver so the margin of error between both runs were probably pretty small.

I imagine that the alpha chassis is probably better when we get into the V8 variants because of how it makes it's power differently and magride, tuning etc. I doubt those the tested one even had mag since it just was a non 1LE.

I still have not seen any evidence that tells me the chassis of the Camaro is better than that of the Mustang - or vice versa. There is evidence that GM puts stickier tires and stiffer suspension on their lower models versus Ford who seems to save that for the higher tiers.

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