10R80 on the curvy (road race) track

[mustang5o]

That's what I try to figure it out. That's right now nobody is tracking at the 810 hard like I am so I guess I am a kind of pioneer. As far as I know it doesn't exist any thermostat. And is it inside the transmission itself so fingers crossed if my cooler will work

Have you looked into this? https://pbhperformance.com/shop/transmission-cooler-kit/

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[SVO MkII]

Well, I'll keep you posted guys our 2018 A10 is really really fast. But as often happen Ford misses always a little to make something good, a new excellence .
I wonder how the ZL1 1le will handle overheat on the 10speed.

If Ford designs an auto transmission capable of serious track duty, they will probably offer it in the GT350. FWIW, the Mustang GT4s use a Holinger RD-6 sequential paddle shift transmission.

 

[rebellovw]

Is this another how great the 10r80 is thread? No thanks - I'll take the Getrag please - love my stick.

 

[rebellovw]

I think everyone is missing the point, an automatic on a road course would be super boring!

Who would want to do that to themselves.

exactly - the other thing I cannot stand are the various exhaust demo videos that use the auto instead of the stick - the shifting sounds terrible - they never wind it out. 4 shifts and they haven't even cleared the block.

 

[mustang5o]

If Ford designs an auto transmission capable of serious track duty, they will probably offer it in the GT350. FWIW, the Mustang GT4s use a Holinger RD-6 sequential paddle shift transmission.

Well it's almost a $20K transmission. We don't need anything that serious. It would just be nice to have the option of an auto trans that could handle some occasional serious use. Although...

Is this another how great the 10r80 is thread? No thanks - I'll take the Getrag please - love my stick.

...I agree the manual is much more engaging. There are times when I have knee issues in my left knee. Having the option to run an auto and paddle shift would be nice. Look at the major racing events and see how many cars are not using the third pedal. I've driven a GT-R on a road course and it was still fun. Plus, if the auto make you faster than all of your friends, even better.

 

[Flyhalf]

I had the chance to drive all my life stick (in italy os 90%stick market)
And here in US I drive the 10speed on track with paddle shifting. I find it nice. Yes it is not a double clutch but from a tactil feedback a paddle is a paddle.
Yes i would love to have the double clutch. And i dont think the F1 guys complaining on how boring is paddle shifting.
I think the choice of 10speed for a ZL1 1le to compete against gt500 cannot be so naive if they didn't believe on the potential of this trasmission .
Once again is the best paddle shifting in the market? Of course not .But for 1500$ extra cost I think it represents a great option

 

[Flyhalf]

Have you looked into this? https://pbhperformance.com/shop/transmission-cooler-kit/

I did.
The all miss the male to rubber connector wochbis the one giving hard time of leakage .
Also so far i paid
230$ 25row setrab
50$ hoses and 8an connector
Plus 50$ of stuff i didn't use .
So still can do it for a better price .

 

[mustang5o]

I did.
The all miss the male to rubber connector wochbis the one giving hard time of leakage .
Also so far i paid
230$ 25row setrab
50$ hoses and 8an connector
Plus 50$ of stuff i didn't use .
So still can do it for a better price .

Not bad. Hoping this all works out for you.

 

[Flyhalf]

thanks man

 

[EFI]

.
However i really believe the only issue is the thermostat if it was always open we would have not Any issues

Why do you think the thermostat is the issue? Thermostats are only there for temperature control, they have very little to do with the overall performance of a cooling system. Whether the 10R80 has a 200* thermostat or 100* thermostat or no thermostat at all it won't matter in terms of cooling performance, which is directly tied to the design of the transmission itself and the cooling capabilities of the cooling system.

It's the same with the engine thermostat, in performance driving and racing it doesn't matter if the engine has the stock thermostat or a 170* one. The engine will run at the same temperature on track regardless. Yes on the street, the engine runs cooler with the 170*, but once you start racing and the stock thermostat opens it's all the same.

 

[Flyhalf]

Why do you think the thermostat is the issue? Thermostats are only there for temperature control, they have very little to do with the overall performance of a cooling system. Whether the 10R80 has a 200* thermostat or 100* thermostat or no thermostat at all it won't matter in terms of cooling performance, which is directly tied to the design of the transmission itself and the cooling capabilities of the cooling system.

It's the same with the engine thermostat, in performance driving and racing it doesn't matter if the engine has the stock thermostat or a 170* one. The engine will run at the same temperature on track regardless. Yes on the street, the engine runs cooler with the 170*, but once you start racing and the stock thermostat opens it's all the same.

I respectufully disagree
I mean. Yes you are right about the general concept
However this is different .
From a cooling prospective you are right . it is all about the cooler, his position, the airflow etc.
The engine thermostat is design to have the engine work at the proper temp to optimize performance durability and mileage .
Trans works fine in normal condition .
On the track is a different situation .
The cooler the better .(Of course a minimum of warm up always necessary)
Starting to use the cooler at 200f will be perfect if the trans can reach 250 without issue. Butnit is not like this here. Trans suffers in high temp and it is impossible to keep pushing for 20mins and not expecting temp to raise from 200f to 240f.
While if the trans thermostat opens at 100 (just an example) there is no way trans temp will reach that place in 20min sessions .
Also
10r80 uses a ultra LOW viscosity (due to the built of the trans it self)
A ULV oil. Doesn't work well at high temp unfortunately .

Last
Maybe this new bigger trans cooler will do his job anyway (i hope so!)
but I hope you understand my concept behind "thermostat at 200f is a problem "

 

[EFI]

While if the trans thermostat opens at 100 (just an example) there is no way trans temp will reach that place in 20min sessions "

I'm surprised. For one, an unlocked torque converter (which I assume is 100% of the time on track) produces ALOT of heat. Secondly, the Coyote engine runs high RPMs (up to 7500) so those kinds of trans speeds heat up fluid much faster than engines that spin 6000rpm.

I would be very surprised if a transmission running basically WOT for the majority of 20 minutes will not reach 200*.

Also, say you are correct and it doesn't get to 200* in 20 minutes (using 100* thermostat example) and it only gets to 170*. This just means that you can get 1 or maybe 2 sessions before being a problem.

Say you start at 100* in the morning and get to 170* after the first 20 minutes. With the car parked and the pump not working and no airflow to the cooler, the transmission will take a long time to cool back off. Then starting your next session an hour or so later, the transmission has only cooled to say 130* so now you're going from 130* to 200* in session 2. Session 3 would be the same, but this time starting at 160* and probably reaching well over 200*.

So as you can see, yes a cooler thermostat will give you a fighting chance in the beginning, but once your tranmission gets over 200* then it doesn't matter if you have a 200* thermostat or 100* as I mentioned. And with a torque converter, your fluid will get heated up real quick at high RPMs. Either way, what I'm saying is I think that the thermostat being at 200* is only a minor problem in the grand scheme of things. The fact that it's a torque converter transmission and the car has a tiny cooler is what makes up the bulk of the overheating issues on track.

 

[Flyhalf]

As I mentioned
the bigger cooler in front at the ac condenser is the main solution and itnus what i did.
Follow your examples .
My first session i get after 20min at 210. This with 60f max outside .
Second session start at 170 and reache 225
And so on.
And this because the generation of heat in my the autotrans it is not counterbalance by a cooling system that runs always .
With the oem cooler also
If i keep the car at idle at 170f to let the pump move the fluid and cool down a little unfortunately this won't work cause the system is close by the thermostat .
Point is.
If I can run every session with 50f less i would probably fix overheat issues .
Another thing this trans should change is the pan from plastic to metal base .This would allow a extra cooling like for the manual models.
Once again
Key is the new cooler .
Having an open system will be a great plus .

 

[D98gt]

When will you be testing the cooler? I am hoping to battle my 200+ temps as well and was thinking of a better cooler. Doesn't help that my whipple exchanger is in there as well.

 

[Flyhalf]

When will you be testing the cooler? I am hoping to battle my 200+ temps as well and was thinking of a better cooler. Doesn't help that my whipple exchanger is in there as well.

June 30th ..buttonwillow with 100f
Intested 300miles on the street. Max temp is 202.
I'm also investigating with a ford mechanic possible options to remove /bypass the thermostat .. I'm sure that if we remove it the average temp will drop 30f at least . the thsrmostat opens too late for track usage.
One thing for sure.
Having now the cooler before the AC condenser is helping forncooling down the temp when i stop the car : if i turn on the AC the fan starts to move air an cool down it.
I keep you posted

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