1000cc injectors with Whipple SC

[phunk]

You think maybe your headers were telling you you were out of fuel?

No, thats actually not how that works. While I am pretty much out of fuel as it stands, we can conclude that the stock fuel pump is good for about ~700rwhp Dynojet, and so are the injectors that come with the Whipple kit. Maybe I will see 725rwhp with the LT tune update, we shall see... but then again I will be running the voltage booster for any more power than I am driving on right now... so its moot.

The point is that 500-525rwhp is not the limit of the stock fuel pump, but that about 700rwhp is... and that's when pushing through the stock 3/8 pipe with a returnless. Add a return system and -8 pipe, and you will probably get another 50hp out of it. Add a voltage booster to it, and, well... thats a whole new ballpark.

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[Whipple SC]

The calibration also pulls the throttle back when injectors and pump max out. When the PCM cannot hold the commanded air fuel with its wide bands and inj/pump logic, the PCM holds power to a safe level. The kit is not on borrowed time. Remember Hennessey range 207.9 with the same setup, long distance pulls is far harder then short street burst. Even revved it to 8000, aka less time for injectors and no flow issue.

 

[908ssp]

I don't understand your pulling throttle you're pulling power...is this an economy run?

 

[beefcake]

I don't understand your pulling throttle you're pulling power...is this an economy run?

it's a safety feature

 

[Jmeo]

I don't understand your pulling throttle you're pulling power...is this an economy run?

What he is saying is IF the fuel supply ran out the tune will pull back throttle before it lets anything go wrong. As in a safety measure


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[Barrel]

Just out of curiosity, what happens if the pump actually fails while under throttle/boost?

 

[Super Werty]

You pull off the blower... Return car to stock and tow it to your nearest stealership

 

[Whipple SC]

Just out of curiosity, what happens if the pump actually fails while under throttle/boost?

Well if it fails completely it runs so lean so quickly that the motor just dies, not fail. The PCM also sees the failure based off psi, pump %, wide band commanded vs actual and inj DC and pulls the throttle back.

The danger is a pump that detoriates as a motor can run lean enough to burn. That 13-15:1 range is peak temp but in the other side, 17:1 and higher is cooler than 12:1 air fuel. Therefore that logic is important to have control. The great thing about the Fords is the wide bands, makes the logic so much easier as it has predicted torque, commanded and expected lambda, short term and long term corrections and sophisticated logic to hold consistent power. Many have to remember this is the same theory as the Ecoboost. The power varies depending temps, baro, etc in all different areas with massive safety features to run high boost at all times. Our tune has unique code and features that the stock cals do not have, some from the Ecoboost, some from the GT500 and many others.

While the logic is sound, it's typical in the aftermarket to have these concerns but with the new software and calibrations, we can run much closer to the edge then before because we have that control.

In fact when some were talking about early cal issues, the only real issue was that we had our safety margins to conservative and could clip the throttle to easy. We did a few tricks to get everything in range and now everyone is making big power out of the box.

 

[908ssp]

What he is saying is IF the fuel supply ran out the tune will pull back throttle before it lets anything go wrong. As in a safety measure


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I don't want a safety feature I want fuel. They are arguing that you don't need more fuel and then admit they don't have enough and need a safety feature....duh.

 

[beefcake]

I don't want a safety feature I want fuel. They are arguing that you don't need more fuel and then admit they don't have enough and need a safety feature....duh.

a safety feature isn't a bad idea.

if you plan on going high hp, that's why you have the option of a tuner kit, so you can go either fuel system, or bap with some bigger injectors

we went right to our fore stage 4 out of the gate and id1300s

 

[Super Werty]

I don't want a safety feature I want fuel. They are arguing that you don't need more fuel and then admit they don't have enough and need a safety feature....duh.

You either misread that or just don't understand correctly. The whipple injectors and stock pump supply enough fuel for the kits advertised rwhp.

If you made more power by let's say adding a smaller pulley than what was supplied with the kit... then the ecu would pull back throttle to save the motor. That's when you know you need more fuel upgrades.

 

[Whipple SC]

I don't want a safety feature I want fuel. They are arguing that you don't need more fuel and then admit they don't have enough and need a safety feature....duh.

There is enough fuel for the power we supply, along with the option to go .125" smaller on the pulley, roughly another 25RWHP. That has been tested at 500 below sea level to 5000 feet and at sub freezing temps to 110deg F. We wouldn't supply a kit that runs out of fuel. The safety features are there for just that, safety, not to limit you.

When customers want more, this is where the tuner kits work really well. With places like Lethal, Hypermotive, Beefcake and tuners like Lund, Livernois and others, they can meet all those needs.

We can't package ID1000 injectors in our emissions legal packages as that would be nearly impossible to pass, especially without the IMRC valves. The big injector bottoms out at idle consistently and emission testing is highly weighted on cold start, idle and off idle. While they are the best aftermarket injectors, doubling the size required for the power means at the emission level, its nearly impossible to pass.

We are certainly looking at offering the bigger injectors as an option for custom, non-green state applications, but we're currently working on the long tube cal and 5.2L GT350 so that is first up. We already are the first and only to offer a F150 kit for the 2015 5.0L (50-state legal) so were knocking down the projects as fast as possible.

 

[grayforge]

Also, I was under the impression that you don't want larger injectors than needed since the larger they are, the less precise they are at lower duty cycles.

Gross analogy: What's easier to measure a few ounces of water from: a small paper cup or a 2 gallon bucket?

Injectors are easy enough to install, I wouldn't buy larger ones "just to have headroom in case I go bigger power in the future"

 

[beefcake]

id's aren't like the old 60's and 80s that you cant control down low for great drivability gas mileage.

our 2014 10.4 auto car would get 24-25 mpg on the hwy with the id1000s

 

[Whipple SC]

Also, I was under the impression that you don't want larger injectors than needed since the larger they are, the less precise they are at lower duty cycles.

Gross analogy: What's easier to measure a few ounces of water from: a small paper cup or a 2 gallon bucket?

Injectors are easy enough to install, I wouldn't buy larger ones "just to have headroom in case I go bigger power in the future"

ID's are really good, for race applications, best there is. But yes, if you go to big, you do have issues with control at low PW. 99% of 5.0's wouldn't have an issue from what they see, its just at the emission level, even the 56lb/hr dual pattern Bosch's are hitting near 1.0ms in some cases. Also, because the Coyote is a 4v app, the split pattern injectors is the most ideal for cold start, hot restart, idle consistency and a host of other reasons (not nearly as important at aftermarket level). So for us, its hard to offer as a street legal package, but for race applications and high HP (modified apps), they are absolutely awesome injectors, we've used them many times in custom applications.

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