10 Speed Automatic Transmission for 2016

[phil1336]

Phil, I don't think that Norm was calling you incompetent - in context, he was questioning if the powers that be consider us all incompetent. You reply sounds like you thought he was insulting you, but it does not read like that to me at all.

No insult whatsoever. Norm and I are ok. We "PM"ed", and all is good. I know my limitations and I`m good with that. I don`t own a Smart Phone, iPhone or Android, why? Cause I don`t shoot Selfies, Post on Tumbler, InstaGram, Tweet on Twitter, nor Post pictures of what I ate for Breakfast on Facebook or Yelp. Its all good!

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[NotBlake]

A ten speed trans is better than a 6 speed trans if its shifts are significantly faster than the current auto. If this 10 speed trans is as slow as the current auto, this would be a nightmare. I'd note that Ford has not been all that successful in their dual-clutch systems thus far (fiesta & focus) and that the 6R80 is bulletproof. More is not always better.

 

[Norm Peterson]

Fast vs slow shift speed is a detail that can be fixed once a base of knowledge about the transmission gets put together. Think in terms of the hydraulics here (fluid pressures and orifice sizes) and the timing of clutch/band apply & release actions, not how many different gears there are in the box.

10 speeds has the advantages of gear spacing can be made a good bit tighter as well as covering a wider total range. And that opens up new gearing philosophies that could improve everything from the ability to slog along in 2 mph traffic without having to ride the brake pedal to running the 1/8 and 1/4 miles to optimizing fuel economy - all without mechanically changing anything (such as the axle gear swapping people do to favor drag racing over relaxed cruising and better mpg).


Norm

 

[phil1336]

A ten speed trans is better than a 6 speed trans if its shifts are significantly faster than the current auto. If this 10 speed trans is as slow as the current auto, this would be a nightmare. I'd note that Ford has not been all that successful in their dual-clutch systems thus far (fiesta & focus) and that the 6R80 is bulletproof. More is not always better.

Not so! I had an early Production 2012 Ford Fiesta SE Hatchback with its new dual-clutch 6 speed AT and yeah, every once in a while it would have a hesitation or a "hick-up" at low speed negotiating a slow turn etc but Fuel Economy? How about 32-34 MPG City, constant stop&go driving and 41-43 MPG Highway at constant 75-80 MPG? And, mind you, that was from day (1) at Break in all the way to Trade in 3 years later at 35K miles driven. Never a problem whatsoever. Ford said they had a "Software" Patch to solve the occasional hesitation (but) once installed, could not be removed causing reduced Fuel Economy. I instructed them, if they did it, they "owned" the Car, period! One of my favorite Vehicles ever, Ford or otherwise. Consumer Reports be damned!:first:

 

[EXP Jawa]

It struck me as the biggest issue with the DSG in the Fiesta was that people were (understandably) expecting a torque-convertor experience, and this doesn't provide that. By the same token, early adopters of CVT gearboxes got complaints because it too has a unique characteristic. Several companies started programming false "shift points" to make them feel like what customers' expect. Bottom line is that when a product delivers something different than what customers are used to, they'll complain even if it is working properly...

 

[phil1336]

It struck me as the biggest issue with the DSG in the Fiesta was that people were (understandably) expecting a torque-convertor experience, and this doesn't provide that. By the same token, early adopters of CVT gearboxes got complaints because it too has a unique characteristic. Several companies started programming false "shift points" to make them feel like what customers' expect. Bottom line is that when a product delivers something different than what customers are used to, they'll complain even if it is working properly...

I totally agree. Going back to the complaining and bitching about Vehicles that come with CVT Automatic Transmissions, I simply don`t get it? I have such in my `13 Ford C-Max Hybrid and have no issues or problems. This vehicle drives and performs flawlessly achieving "real-time" 38-40 MPG both in City and Highways and has plenty of power, torque & acceleration. Too many Folks are addicted to drinking Consumer Reports "Koolaid"! Almost as satisfying at a Bud, Miller, or Coors Light!

 

[phil1336]

It struck me as the biggest issue with the DSG in the Fiesta was that people were (understandably) expecting a torque-convertor experience, and this doesn't provide that. By the same token, early adopters of CVT gearboxes got complaints because it too has a unique characteristic. Several companies started programming false "shift points" to make them feel like what customers' expect. Bottom line is that when a product delivers something different than what customers are used to, they'll complain even if it is working properly...

I totally agree. Going back to the complaining and bitching about vehicle that come with CVT Automatic Transmissions, I simply don`t get it? I have such in my `13 Ford C-Max Hybrid and have no issues or problems. This Vehicle drives and performs flawlessly achieving "real-time" 38-40 MPG both in City and Highways and has plenty of power, torque & acceleration. Too many Folks are addicted to drinking Consumer Reports "Koolaid"! Almost as satisfying at a Bud, Miller, or Coors Light!

 

[Tcstang]

My GF accord has the CVT transmission and we have no complaints.

 

[Norm Peterson]

I totally agree. Going back to the complaining and bitching about Vehicles that come with CVT Automatic Transmissions, I simply don`t get it?

For lots of people, having the engine revs commonly sounding like they're getting "out of sync" with the road speed sounds exactly like something is wrong. Either the clutch for a MT is slipping and needs (expensive) replacement, the AT needs to be opened up and serviced (also expensive), or that high-stall drag-race torque converter that's way too loose for street driving was badly chosen.

For enthusiasts - and I think particularly those into drag racing and hard street launches - torque management may be going on to prevent slippage at the smaller drive pulley diameters and avoid heat-induced fluid degradation (it's special stuff, more expensive than regular ATF). I suppose this could be crutched somehow with higher fluid pressures, at a likely mpg penalty and possible durability implications.

Some people readily adapt to their car's CVT. One individual with a late model Maxima is pretty happy with it and has figured out how to get what he needs out of it. FWIW, he's a bit older than either you or me, but might well still own a MT car if he didn't reside in the greater Atlanta GA area.

Speaking of Nissan - they did have some problems with the early CVTs, mainly in the Murano, and this was normally fixed by completely replacing the CVT ($7000 is a number I seem to remember). It's been a few years, and the huge "CVT vs MT" thread over on Maxima.org has been all but silent the last couple of years, but I recall some years and individual model Nissans ended up getting longer/extended warranties. Only half joking, maybe the early customers were the beta-test group?


Norm

 

[phil1336]

Much to worry about nothing. Unless your purchasing a Vehicle to be put in service as a Taxi or Police Car, how many typical new Car buyers "Marry" their Car till "Death Do They Part"? Oh, sure, the old Volvo ads were amusing showing documentation of Folks that have put on a Million Miles on their cherished Car but for most of us, be it a Lease or a Purchase, 3 to 5 years and out! Its just a Car or a Truck, not "Ole Yellar" or your favorite Dog! Want to keep the Car for an extra couple of years? Purchase an extended service plan from the (original) Manufacturer before the Warranty expires and reduce the cost by adding a deductible you can live with.

 

[Norm Peterson]

It used to be pretty easy to run out the mileage on a standard warranty long before the time was up (and before the min end of your "3 to 5 years and out" as well). Might still be; I don't pay much attention to such things any more.


Honestly, I can't understand a mindset that considers vehicles to be that readily disposable. If it's not enough fun to drive after 3 years to still want to keep, it was probably giving subtle hints on the test drive that it wouldn't be. So I wouldn't buy it in the first place. Won't own a car I'll end up hating to drive. Easier to overlook a few flaws in a car that is fun to drive.


Norm

 

[EXP Jawa]

Honestly, I can't understand a mindset that considers vehicles to be that readily disposable. If it's not enough fun to drive after 3 years to still want to keep, it was probably giving subtle hints on the test drive that it wouldn't be. So I wouldn't buy it in the first place. Won't own a car I'll end up hating to drive. Easier to overlook a few flaws in a car that is fun to drive.


Norm

I hear what you're saying - I've yet to buy a car made in this century. My Mustang is a '99, not yet hit 100K miles, whereas my Mountaineer is a '98 with 336K on it. Granted, I didn't buy it new, but my sister did, so its been in the family anyway. I think to some people its as much about impressing others with the latest tech and hardware as it is about keeping the fun going. These same people are too concerned about being seen in a new car, IMHO.

 

[phil1336]

Different strokes for different Folks. I don`t look at a Vehicle as a utility investment such as a House I plan on living in for decades. Sure a Car has utility but for me, I need some (fun) value too! I never purchase (anything) with a Lifetime Guarantee, period! I want to live long enough to replace everything and anything I have many times before I take my "dirt nap". Life is too short to have to (justify) all actions by mere practicality.

 

[RobMustang15]

I hear what you're saying - I've yet to buy a car made in this century. My Mustang is a '99, not yet hit 100K miles, whereas my Mountaineer is a '98 with 336K on it. Granted, I didn't buy it new, but my sister did, so its been in the family anyway. I think to some people its as much about impressing others with the latest tech and hardware as it is about keeping the fun going. These same people are too concerned about being seen in a new car, IMHO.

I will admit in 3 or 4 years I will probably be selling my 2015 Mustang GT to my dad so I can buy something else.

I guess for me it is that I both get tired of cars and want to try everything!

Iv gotten to own and drive (both through me owning it and my parents) an 87 Supra, 2009 G37, 2005 Scion TC, 2005 Mustang GT, 1967 Mustang, 2006 350Z, and now this car.

I just want to try more things, for me it is soooo much fun to try something entirely new. New forums, new "popular" brands to learn about, new people, new scene and even the meets and shows can change a bit depending on the car.

 

[EXP Jawa]

For my part, I'm intending to buy a '16 GT as sort of a stop-gap. Originally, I was going to buy a convertible and keep it a long time. But for what role convertibles generally do, I'd prefer to keep my '99. I'd rather have the faster car be track-able, so I'm leaning toward a base GT fastback with only the PP added. The money saved offsets having to trade my '99 in, so I get to have both. With what I'm planning as a down payment, I'll money ahead enough that I can then trade the '16 in when the '18 MY cars - and hopefully an SE such as a Mach1 or Bullitt - become available. The trade value I expect to have is similar to what my initial down payment will be, so I'll not really have lost anything. And I'll still have my '99.

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