10 Speed Auto or 6 Speed Manual, what say you?

[Jmtoast]

So a tranny tranny?

Sure you can name my invention.

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[Arthonon]

What I'm saying is that I just can't help but notice when somebody else's shift logic - including how well it keeps up with my manually-commanded shifting - isn't matching my own. Not even when the automatic in question is very smooth about its shifting. And that's always going to annoy me.



That's fine for anybody who's comfortable using paddles in the first place. I've driven a few cars that offered paddle shifting, and all I can say is that I'd have to try too hard to like them for anything short of timed competition where I might have to have them for competitive reasons. Having to try too hard to like something tells me that it wouldn't be a good fit.

There is some difference between commanding a downshift in advance and physically making the downshift happen. At least there is in cases where the transmission controller didn't agree with what you asked it to do and it made you wait for the downshift to actually happen.


Norm

First of all, if you like to shift your own gears, and/or don't want to get used to using paddles, that's a personal choice and I would never try to convince you otherwise.

What I am countering is specific issues you have with the A10. Maybe I missed it, but I haven't seen you explicitly say whether you've driven that transmission. If you haven't, and you're making all these comments about shift logic, etc., it's about like someone saying that Mustangs don't have any power because they drove a Mustang II and it was weak. Just because previous iterations of something had certain characteristics, it doesn't mean that all subsequent iterations of it are the same.

It seems to me that the statements you made would also apply to a DCT in auto mode, and from things I've read regarding the DCT in the GT500, most professional race drivers find that it makes the shifts exactly the way they would, so they didn't bother to put it in manual mode. That doesn't mean that the A10 would do the same, but it means that there is shift logic out there that seems to match up pretty well to that of pro drivers, so it's possible that an auto trans could do that.

Would it match *your* shift logic? Well, that's a different question. Then it's not about the shift logic being right, it's about it matching you, and again, that's a personal thing.

 

[Fly2High]

I am not a race driver but I tend to believe what is reported . I keep going back to a Cars.com report that compared the PP1 vs PP2 where the PP1 was the A10.

In this report, three different people commented on their experiences with the A10.

https://www.cars.com/articles/mustang-vs-mustang-fords-performance-packages-tested-1420700897178/

Elephant in the Room: The 10-Speed Automatic
Elephants, horses, ponies. Yes, we did test cars too. The 10-speed automatic in the PP1 made this comparison not an apples-to-apples test, but it was enlightening to test the new transmission in virtually every imaginable scenario against a stick: road course, drag strip, street. Our judges came away with mixed impressions. Also of note: After we drove the car for this comparison, our PP1 test car received a transmission programming update that improved low-speed drivability and increased the fun factor in modes besides Track.

JB: I’ve driven a few F-150s with the 10-speed (5.0-liter and Raptor), and none felt as mushy and confused as the 10-speed in our Mustang. In Track mode, however, the transmission did a complete 180 with its ability to confidently choose a gear around GingerMan. I didn’t think the 10-speed was out of place at all when driven hard on the track except for one slow corner where it repeatedly didn’t downshift as low as I wanted.

AB: The 10-speed is the biggest disappointment with this car. I didn’t like it on the track or on the street — I understand that transmissions with 10 gears to play with will shift a lot, but the low-speed, around-town performance of the 10-speed is infuriating. It’s almost impossible to drive smoothly. On the track, it never shifted when I wanted it to, so I ended up doing it myself.

MH: On the street, the automatic is too leisurely for a sports car, like the Mustang somehow got the Taurus’ transmission programming. It was better on the road course, however, with a willingness to downshift when entering corners.

It would appear that there are several who feel the way Norm does. It would have been nice to see if the update would have changed their comments.

 

[Balr14]

If anyone is interested in breakdown of a PDK and some repair advice that will keep the cost way, way down, check out the following (https://rennlist.com/forums/997-for...epairing-a-pdk-transmission.html#&gid=1&pid=1).

This is going pretty far off topic, but the parts that are most likely to fail are not available. I did a ton of investigation on the PDK before I decided it was best to sell my Porsche. If I thought there was a reasonable chance of avoiding the high cost of replacement I would have kept the car.

 

[EFI]

It would appear that there are several who feel the way Norm does. It would have been nice to see if the update would have changed their comments.

They should drive a tuned A10, even if it's just the "lowly" FP tune. It's completely transformed the car.

I wonder if this tune is part of the updated Mach1 setup along with the hardware. From what I've read that setup is alot better suited for the road course.

 

[RonsterGT]

They should drive a tuned A10, even if it's just the "lowly" FP tune. It's completely transformed the car.

I wonder if this tune is part of the updated Mach1 setup along with the hardware. From what I've read that setup is alot better suited for the road course.

100%

 

[Sivi70980]

100%

Budgeting for the FPP for my car now. Should make a fun summer if all goes well.

 

[Mikesc]

I test drove both... Chose the Auto... the manual would have gotten me more tickets... I love pulling gears. Auto is a great trans. JMO

 

[Doc2020GT]

First of all, if you like to shift your own gears, and/or don't want to get used to using paddles, that's a personal choice and I would never try to convince you otherwise.

What I am countering is specific issues you have with the A10. Maybe I missed it, but I haven't seen you explicitly say whether you've driven that transmission. If you haven't, and you're making all these comments about shift logic, etc., it's about like someone saying that Mustangs don't have any power because they drove a Mustang II and it was weak. Just because previous iterations of something had certain characteristics, it doesn't mean that all subsequent iterations of it are the same.

It seems to me that the statements you made would also apply to a DCT in auto mode, and from things I've read regarding the DCT in the GT500, most professional race drivers find that it makes the shifts exactly the way they would, so they didn't bother to put it in manual mode. That doesn't mean that the A10 would do the same, but it means that there is shift logic out there that seems to match up pretty well to that of pro drivers, so it's possible that an auto trans could do that.

Would it match *your* shift logic? Well, that's a different question. Then it's not about the shift logic being right, it's about it matching you, and again, that's a personal thing.

He drives a 2008 so 90% of the stuff discussed here doesn’t apply to him. I’m really curious why he’s commenting here. I’m also curious if he’s ever driven the A10.

 

[Stage_3]

I had the MT-82 in my '13 Roush Stage 3. I was okay, not bad, but not great. I did buy a MGW shifter for it, which I never had installed. Sold the shifter.
After driving the A10 for a little bit, I really like the A10. Have yet to play with the paddles.

 

[Fly2High]

They should drive a tuned A10, even if it's just the "lowly" FP tune. It's completely transformed the car.

I wonder if this tune is part of the updated Mach1 setup along with the hardware. From what I've read that setup is alot better suited for the road course.

So you are admitting Ford did not get it right. It needs someone else's tune to be right.

How many are going to get the car tuned?

I want the car right from the lot. The less computers, the better. Never had to get a tune to get the manual to be right. Of course, my emotional state can affect shifting performance. Does that count?

 

[EFI]

So you are admitting Ford did not get it right. It needs someone else's tune to be right.

No, they just need their own better tune to get it right.

Never had to get a tune to get the manual to be right.

Not a tune, but you need a clutch and shifter to make that transmission even remotely decent. How many MT82 owners are going to do all that?

I expect my car to be right from the lot, not be a clunky mess on every shift.

 

[Balr14]

I expect my car to be right from the lot, not be a clunky mess on every shit.

If you shit in your Mustang a mess is likely.

 

[EFI]

If you shit in your Mustang a mess is likely.

Touche.

 

[Arthonon]

I am not a race driver but I tend to believe what is reported . I keep going back to a Cars.com report that compared the PP1 vs PP2 where the PP1 was the A10.

In this report, three different people commented on their experiences with the A10.

https://www.cars.com/articles/mustang-vs-mustang-fords-performance-packages-tested-1420700897178/

It would appear that there are several who feel the way Norm does. It would have been nice to see if the update would have changed their comments.

But if you look at the parts you didn't bold, it actually sounds like it did well on the track, which is usually where the issues being discussed come up - not downshifting for performance, upshifting too soon, etc. I saw another article where someone took it to VIR and found the auto worked well on that track too. They initially had an issue with the downshifts, but got used to it, and the rest they said was very good.

As I've mentioned, mine hard shifts in Sport mode more than I think it should, but around town in Normal mode, it's silky smooth, doesn't hunt, and is almost unnoticeable. The only thing I don't like in Normal mode is that it won't downshift as quickly when I hit the gas to accelerate. I can still manually downshift, though, which helps.

And I never meant to imply that the A10 is a perfect transmission, or that people who like manuals should get one, I just wanted to say that a lot of the issues with previous autos are either greatly reduced or removed with the A10. It's not like the autos of old.

And this shows one of the factors in why I didn't get the M6 in my 2018:

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