Kenne Bell Creates A Four-Digit-Capable 5.2-Liter Engine

rancherogt · Jan 25, 2017

http://www.fordnxt.com/tech-stories/engine/kenne-bell-creates-a-four-digit-capable-5-2-liter-engine/

Impressive build from this legendary engine builder. Wish they would of found a way to keep the flat plane crankshaft but good info about the block strength, cylinder heads and oiling system that I have not read before.

I am happy with my NA Voodoo but I see a few of these showing up in a mustang or street rod near you. Or your lucky enough to pick up one of the 50 Hurst-Kenne Bell R-Code Mustangs.

xXANCHORMONXx · Jan 25, 2017

Looks great.

Those wheels however....

THX 138 · Jan 25, 2017

Hang on a sec... does the Voodoo have billet oil pump gears stock?

"The Coyote oil pump (left) is easily identifiable by the two-bolt boss for the pickup tube. The Voodoo pump at right uses a rubber socket instead. The Voodoo inlet is also larger—1.250 vs. 1.0 inches—and boasts billet gears instead of the Coyote’s cast gerotor set."

machsmith · Jan 25, 2017

THX 138 said:
Hang on a sec... does the Voodoo have billet oil pump gears stock?

"The Coyote oil pump (left) is easily identifiable by the two-bolt boss for the pickup tube. The Voodoo pump at right uses a rubber socket instead. The Voodoo inlet is also larger—1.250 vs. 1.0 inches—and boasts billet gears instead of the Coyote’s cast gerotor set."

If I'm not mistaken they mean 5.2 CPC ford performance crate engine. I heard the Voodoo FPC production engine does not.

THX 138 · Jan 25, 2017

machsmith said:
If I'm not mistaken they mean 5.2 CPC ford performance crate engine. I heard the Voodoo FPC production engine does not.

No, the "Aluminator" 5.2 uses a 2-bolt oil pump like the Coyote unit on the left, above. Check the part number and picture link in this article:
http://performance.ford.com/enthusiasts/media-room/2016/09/first-look-at-the-5-2l-aluminator-xs-crate-engine.html

The Kenne Bell article specifically references a billet oil pump gear for the Voodoo unit pictured above right.

machsmith · Jan 26, 2017

THX 138 said:
No, the "Aluminator" 5.2 uses a 2-bolt oil pump like the Coyote unit on the left, above. Check the part number and picture link in this article:
http://performance.ford.com/enthusiasts/media-room/2016/09/first-look-at-the-5-2l-aluminator-xs-crate-engine.html

The Kenne Bell article specificalley references a billet oil pump gear for the Voodoo unit pictured above right.

OK, then they more than likely made an error there. In the pics of the shattered gears, I've never seen any kind of billet look like that. Billet will have bent pieces where it "tears" away from each piece. The pics I've seen of the shattered gears, it looks like it was cast iron or powdered metal, broken apart with clean breaks.
Only thing is if was billet then it's been poorly heat treated and causes this type of destruction.

mustang1 · Jan 26, 2017

THX 138 said:
... The Kenne Bell article specifically references a billet oil pump gear for the Voodoo unit pictured above right.

I would not bet on a billet OPG. Based upon my (very scientific) research, it is (or was) the same material as the Coyote. To get the best data, buy an oil pump, take it apart, and find out for yourself.

THX 138 · Jan 26, 2017

machsmith said:
OK, then they more than likely made an error there. In the pics of the shattered gears, I've never seen any kind of billet look like that. Billet will have bent pieces where it "tears" away from each piece. The pics I've seen of the shattered gears, it looks like it was cast iron or powdered metal, broken apart with clean breaks.

Link to the pics? Are the pics from a GT or a GT350? Not doubting you, just looking for a reliable source one way or the other. Thanks.

Hack · Jan 26, 2017

machsmith said:
OK, then they more than likely made an error there. In the pics of the shattered gears, I've never seen any kind of billet look like that. Billet will have bent pieces where it "tears" away from each piece. The pics I've seen of the shattered gears, it looks like it was cast iron or powdered metal, broken apart with clean breaks.

So, the word billet means the part is machined from a single piece of material. That piece of material could be cast plate - and probably is. My opinion is it would be very unusual to forge a piece of plate and then try to machine something from it. And it wouldn't make any sense to do that anyway, as the forging process should be near net (final shape) in order to impart additional strength to the completed part.

IMO billet really doesn't mean much in terms of durability or what the component "should" look like when it fails, other than it might reduce casting flaws if whoever designed the mold tool and molding process made an error. I would be surprised if Ford doesn't know how to design a mold for casting an aluminum part.

Now, if the part was forged, I would agree with your thoughts about what failure should look like.

Could you post up photos or a link to these failed parts?

machsmith · Jan 26, 2017

I don't have the time to find the pics this AM but it may possibly be billet, it may just be the heat treating process that makes them too brittle. (Pics were here on this forum a couple months ago)
Forged wouldn't be any stronger than billet.
Cast would be weaker as that usually has porosity in it.
Powdered metal is maybe the same as cast, but not sure as I've never machined powdered metal. Just sounds weak from the sound of it haha.
My guess again is that it is billet but a combination of design and heat treating process (being that they are so thin walled) is volatile. Most parts may check good in a batch but some are going thru that are bad. The need to 100% test each one of these parts, something I doubt they have been doing.

65Terdlingua · Jan 26, 2017

http://www.scotforge.com/Why-Forging/Glossary

The difference is a billet has been hot worked like hot rolled or forged, changing the molecular structure and making it stronger.

Hack · Jan 26, 2017

65Terdlingua said:
http://www.scotforge.com/Why-Forging/Glossary

The difference is a billet has been hot worked like hot rolled or forged, changing the molecular structure and making it stronger.

The information at your link isn't referring to the same thing as a billet part on an automobile.

NipSC4328 · Jan 26, 2017

Normally when a piece is specified as "billet steel" it is forged from a billet material, not a casting. Not making myself out to be an expert, but I have been in the ferrous foundry and machine shop business over 40 years, FWIW. Many gears are made from powdered metal in a hot pressed sintering operation and these would be more prone to crack and not bend.

Hack · Jan 26, 2017

NipSC4328 said:
Normally when a piece is specified as "billet steel" it is forged from a billet material, not a casting. Not making myself out to be an expert, but I have been in the ferrous foundry and machine shop business over 40 years, FWIW. Many gears are made from powdered metal in a hot pressed sintering operation and these would be more prone to crack and not bend.

Right, that is talking about a blank hunk of raw material that is billet. That doesn't refer to the end product.

I've worked in engineering/manufacturing for over 30 years, but we never use the term billet - at least I can say I've never seen it on a part drawing. The raw material is specified in a different manner using numbers and descriptions such as cast, hot rolled, cold rolled with UNS and temper numbers. IMO terms like "billet" are not exact enough to get what you really want.

Paul@PKAUTODESIGN · Jan 26, 2017

Ive been debating to S/C or TT, pretty much made the call to TT the Shelby with a local shop I know down here in So Cal.

Kenne Bell Creates A Four-Digit-Capable 5.2-Liter Engine

rancherogt

Well-Known Member

xXANCHORMONXx

Well-Known Member

THX 138

Well-Known Member

machsmith

Well-Known Member

THX 138

Well-Known Member

machsmith

Well-Known Member

mustang1

Well-Known Member

THX 138

Well-Known Member

Hack

Well-Known Member

machsmith

Well-Known Member

65Terdlingua

Well-Known Member

Hack

Well-Known Member

NipSC4328

Well-Known Member

Hack

Well-Known Member

Paul@PKAUTODESIGN

The Wheel guy

Similar threads