Frank Talk About Headers Requested

autobahnGT350 said:

Speaking of JBA headers, do you know anyone running JBA headers on GT350’s? I don’t think many folks are running JBAs recently, or they are not posting. Just curios as they don’t advertise HP gains for GT350.

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I'm sorry. I don't. I took a look around and did not see any of the common vendors selling ceramic coated ss headers for the s550 or GT350. I guess someone would have to have them dipped.

All I can say is that the ceramic headers I had kept it very cool and they shined like new when I removed them after a season. Looked like they were shiny silver.

autobahnGT350 said:

Speaking of JBA headers, do you know anyone running JBA headers on GT350’s? I don’t think many folks are running JBAs recently, or they are not posting. Just curios as they don’t advertise HP gains for GT350.

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You mean these?

https://www.lethalperformance.com/j...5-2l-1-3-4-shorty-headers-silver-ceramic.html

Won't gain any power but the sound might change up since it's a 4 into 1 rather than........whatever we have on our cars from the factory. 1 into 3 into 2 into that thing goes there and all. But the factory headers were tuned with some intelligence involved. That being said I wouldn't mind knowing what a 4 into 1 short header would sound like.

Demonic said:

Do you guys think even with the kooks, high flow cats, and stock muffler with valves closed, the car would still fail a track noise test?

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• Firstly, how will you keep the mufflers closed at WOT? I would like to know how.
• Second, AMP has a 98dB limit and my R runs right at that limit. It is totally stock. I fear any mod which impacts sound will put me over the top.
• Thirdly, if you add headers and tune, you have voided your warranty.

Good luck with your mods. :cheers:

nastang87xx said:

You mean these?

https://www.lethalperformance.com/j...5-2l-1-3-4-shorty-headers-silver-ceramic.html

Won't gain any power but the sound might change up since it's a 4 into 1 rather than........whatever we have on our cars from the factory. 1 into 3 into 2 into that thing goes there and all. But the factory headers were tuned with some intelligence involved. That being said I wouldn't mind knowing what a 4 into 1 short header would sound like.

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Yes, exactly. Yeah, the factory headed configuration does look somewhat exotic in terms of execution. A Ford Engineer at Mustang Week once told me that he would never change factory headers. Ceramic coatings are the shiznit when it comes to exhaust coatings. I am very picky about keeping the Shelby sound intact also, that’s why I did the Ford Racing by Borla sport exhaust. It sounds really abrasive and louder at WOT but maintains Shelby tone. I wonder if a swap on an R would be worth it using the same Ford Performance by Borla sport exhaust.

autobahnGT350 said:

Yes, exactly. Yeah, the factory headed configuration does look somewhat exotic in terms of execution. A Ford Engineer at Mustang Week once told me that he would never change factory headers...

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I heard the same from some of the Ford Racing folks while my wife and I were participating in their program at the Daytona 24 event. I have had a number of performance cars before this one, all Vettes. I never was so hesitant to put headers on any of THOSE cars, but I remain very much on the fence about doing them with THIS car.

That is one of the reasons I started this thread. I find it interesting that given the number of people on this forum, it seems that so few have gone the header route. And, I don't think that is just because of concerns re Voodoo longevity/warranty issues.

I am looking forward to hearing form any other member re their opinions/experience concerning headers.

Car definitely feels better with the intake and custom tune (before and after dynos verify it) and it really reacts well to raising the octane a few points. Sometime I will re-dyno on the same dyno and same conditions with higher octane. I am guessing it will show an additional 10-15 rear wheel ...

There are a lot of boosted folks and cars with headers in the Facebook groups.....not as common occurance as the coyote, but more prevalent than this site

tdzee said:

• Firstly, how will you keep the mufflers closed at WOT? I would like to know how.
• Second, AMP has a 98dB limit and my R runs right at that limit. It is totally stock. I fear any mod which impacts sound will put me over the top.
• Thirdly, if you add headers and tune, you have voided your warranty.

Good luck with your mods. :cheers:

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Maybe something was missed, but I'm not the OP and am not doing any exhaust mods. I was just asking in the thread for the sake of discussion.

I wouldn't waste my time with shorty headers. Ford did a lot of research in to the headers/exhaust on your car. LT or nothing is my motto.

I kept the OEM headers, I have them hanging in my garage. They are nice pieces for sure, it looks like a lot of work was done. Honestly though, as nice as they are, the Kooks headers are on par in craftsmanship if not more. You have to see them to appreciate them. Even in the car you can look on the right side and see the headers, and the Kooks logo.

I am very satisfied with the results. But in the end each person reasoning for owning and what they will do with the car is vastly different. This is a good thread for people who are considering this route.

Are there power gains below 3500 rpms or are they high-end? I would like nothing more than to smooth out that nasty dip in the curve. Or said another way, to have a linear power curve that is as flat as Kansas.

Driver 8 said:

Are there power gains below 3500 rpms or are they high-end? I would like nothing more than to smooth out that nasty dip in the curve. Or said another way, to have a linear power curve that is as flat as Kansas.

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Absolutely. The torque dip that happens around 2500 RPM is smoothened out and things wake up again after about 6500 RPM. Bare in mind though long tubes have been typically yielding only about 15 - 20 RWHP. For a $1,700 investment, consider what you're getting. If you're looking for power and sound, well then yeah definitely go for it. But the best bang for the buck still is a good tune. 25 RWHP is not unheard of with a stout 93 tune. If you want to run flex fuel tunes or E85, 500 RWHP with NOTHING but the tune is on the weak side. Lund has been consistently firing off 510 RWHP on corn tunes with absolutely 100% ZERO hardware changes.

Also about keeping valves closed at WOT. Guys, I'm really not sure that's a good idea. OEM's do weird things sometimes for reasons we are not sure of and sometimes we can get away with not doing them or doing them whatever they are. But having the valves fly open at 1/3 throttle regardless of driving mode seems very aggressive and for a serious purpose. I still believe in my own opinion (yes I know we all have one) they're doing that to protect the actuators.

autobahnGT350 said:

Yes, exactly. Yeah, the factory headed configuration does look somewhat exotic in terms of execution. A Ford Engineer at Mustang Week once told me that he would never change factory headers. Ceramic coatings are the shiznit when it comes to exhaust coatings. I am very picky about keeping the Shelby sound intact also, that’s why I did the Ford Racing by Borla sport exhaust. It sounds really abrasive and louder at WOT but maintains Shelby tone. I wonder if a swap on an R would be worth it using the same Ford Performance by Borla sport exhaust.

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He's on point unless you go long tubes. If you actually look at each runner and cylinder port one by one and follow it from the head to the collection point, each path is actually quite long even though some look very short. They're using some of those shorter tubes in conjunction with the firing order to get individual runner scavenging even before the exhaust hits the collection point, which is genius. They days of getting 30 horsepower out of headers is long gone. Exhaust valves, heads, even exhaust manifolds are just better now. Millions of $ in R&D don't go to waste.

nastang87xx said:

Absolutely. The torque dip that happens around 2500 RPM is smoothened out and things wake up again after about 6500 RPM. Bare in mind though long tubes have been typically yielding only about 15 - 20 RWHP. For a $1,700 investment, consider what you're getting. If you're looking for power and sound, well then yeah definitely go for it. But the best bang for the buck still is a good tune. 25 RWHP is not unheard of with a stout 93 tune. If you want to run flex fuel tunes or E85, 500 RWHP with NOTHING but the tune is on the weak side. Lund has been consistently firing off 510 RWHP on corn tunes with absolutely 100% ZERO hardware changes.

Also about keeping valves closed at WOT. Guys, I'm really not sure that's a good idea. OEM's do weird things sometimes for reasons we are not sure of and sometimes we can get away with not doing them or doing them whatever they are. But having the valves fly open at 1/3 throttle regardless of driving mode seems very aggressive and for a serious purpose. I still believe in my own opinion (yes I know we all have one) they're doing that to protect the actuators.

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When I was getting my custom tune, the tuner was using a dynographics eddy current dyno and I asked him specifically to measure impacts of the JLT intake. He said it was worth about 7-9 rear wheel. My tune on 93 octane went from 448 rwhp and 365 rw torque to 476 rwhp and 395 rw torque - which bears out nastang87's comments. My original power figures were almost exactly what VMP's were on their GT350 before tuning. Before and after dynos were done on the same dynojet under almost same atmospheric conditions. A subsequent test on another Dynojet yielded 481 and 400..

Living in Florida, I am concerned about E85 hydroscopic issues with a car that may only be driven once or twice a week. I am interested in 6-8 gallons of 100 octane to fill my tank, and see what an overall octane rating of 97 or so will do to power.

I am also having some private conversations with someone who is going to do a tune and Kooks headers with cats in the next month or two. I know him fairly well and I will be watching his results with great interest.

Meanwhile, thanks to everyone who has responded to my thread - hope more folks will chime in!

Real Cost?

Also, since I have always gotten my headers coated by Swain Tech and given the intense and lengthy labor costs associated with a quality install, I am thinking headers would be about a $3000 bill for me...

tdzee said:

• Thirdly, if you add headers and tune, you have voided your warranty.

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So if I have a wheel bearing fail or the infamous rear axle half shaft problem, you’re saying Ford won’t cover those items since I have headers??? Wrong. Modifications of any type do not void a warranty and folks need to stop making these all encompassing, generic statements. Additionally, even IF a failure is due to or related to a modification, it falls on the manufacture/dealer to prove that your mod caused that failure before they can deny warranty work. Now granted, I will completely agree everyone has a different tolerance level and how much pain they’re willing to endure if ever needed to confront a dealer on a warranty claim, but that’s how they work. Do your homework, the law is on the consumers side when it comes to modifications. Removing emissions parts is a different topic, but headers themselves are not that. Headers are pretty mundane anyways when it comes to this topic. A tune might be pushing a wet noodle uphil (it may cause a burnt piston but good luck proving a tune caused my water pump to fail), but I (personally) wouldn’t hesitate to do headers/exhaust mods for fear of warranty. My engine lost all the oil pressure...yea...please show me how headers (alone) caused that malfunction to deny me a new engine claim.

17RubyShelbyGT350 said:

That is one of the reasons I started this thread. I find it interesting that given the number of people on this forum, it seems that so few have gone the header route. And, I don't think that is just because of concerns re Voodoo longevity/warranty issues.

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As a guy like you doing a crap ton of homework to make the same decision, I have come to the conclusion that most may not being doing headers due to the return on your investment. But I’m sure there’s more like me where cost is a rather minuscule factor. I do it for the sheer joy of working and nodding my car the way I like.