FR/Borla exhaust observations

The other thing noticed is, my xpipe section is not level. When I look from the rear of the car and face forward, the passenger side of xpipe is lower. I dont know if this is how it should be or if its a welding issue.

The factory systems often times are not geometrically perfect or "level." My own wasn't mirror image from one side to the other.

With respect to the Borla system, my passenger side X-sextion also ended up slightly lower (or "tipped") just a little towards the passenger side. Look closely in the following photo and you may be able to see it.



Nothing to be concerned about. Just make sure your clamps are in the proper place and that nothing rubs. Beyond that, I agree the install takes a little work but when it's done, it's done. It really does sound good and coupled with a slight hp increase I'm very happy with it.

Epiphany said:

The factory systems often times are not geometrically perfect or "level." My own wasn't mirror image from one side to the other.

With respect to the Borla system, my passenger side X-sextion also ended up slightly lower (or "tipped") just a little towards the passenger side. Look closely in the following photo and you may be able to see it.



Nothing to be concerned about. Just make sure your clamps are in the proper place and that nothing rubs. Beyond that, I agree the install takes a little work but when it's done, it's done. It really does sound good and coupled with a slight hp increase I'm very happy with it.

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Thanks, mine is the same way. So i guess thats not the issue.

I tried readjusting the tips today but there is simply no way to fix them. Because my issue is not forward/backward alignment or up/down. But its more like left/right. The issue I have is the inner pipe of the passenger side literally touches the metal val tip once the exhaust is hot and metal expands. When the exhaust is cold, it doesnt touch it but its very close. The other side is perfect all around.

I dont know what the problem is. I also dont want to pull the pipes so much that now the laser cut edges create a hole because clamps are not wide enough. I dont know if that makes sense but basically if you are not careful the inner pipe that slides in might be too far back and the laser cut edges end up causing a leak in the exhaust.

Something is amiss if you have so much pipe separation that an expansion slot is or could be exposed. If you've extinguished every last inch throughout the range of adjustment there is still a way to make it work. You can always remove the muffler, in this case your passenger side, and tweak the hanger such that it draws the muffler further outboard. That is exactly what I would do if there was no adjustment left.

This is one of the areas where I'd like to see Borla rise to the challenge. The factory tubular structure that is welded at the back of the system (that I showed earlier as well as below) ensures dimensional consistency of the OEM system. I noticed that without it, that the Borla system has to fight the factory hanger locations at the differential. Mine were off by 3/4" or so. Not a big deal to draw them into place but what that indicates is that Borla's system has some variance relative to factory. Again, that's what you get with a clamp together system as much as you also gain some ability to adjust. Borla could weld tangs onto the tubes in the location I'm talking about that would allow bolting in a spreader bar that would ensure that the hangers/tubes were right where they should be which would also make it easier to align the mufflers/tailpipes.


Factory...




This welded "structure" helped the factory system maintain certain dimensions at critical junctures. Without it, assembly line workers may have had to futz with systems to fit the hangers and the tailpipes may not align with the fascia such as what you are seeing.





With one system atop the other you can see how the welded tubes ensure that the hangers near the differential are in the proper place on the OEM system. This also helps to counter the rotational moment the system places upon itself with the mufflers so far outboard.





As I mentioned, Borla could mitigate this issue. And with the margins they are seeing on these systems this should have been done, without a commensurate increase in price to the consumer.

I have to be honest here, I m not impressed with this exhaust. I never owned Borla before but I did do a lot of installa mostly eisenmann or akrapovic. Yes they cost substantially more but they were absolutely blast to install and it was always first try and it worked. This is so much work with borla and a lot of variation.

As far as the sound, yes its nice but I am absolutely certain if I deleted the resonators alone I would get 99% of the sound except the normal mode would still be quiet whereas with this exhaust normal mode is like 60-70% of sport mode before. I was expecting more for the price but then again maybe I had unrealistic expectations.

I look at it this way.

The materials used are first rate. The mufflers are high quality and well engineered. Borla did indeed step it up with some minor changes to the exhaust cradle, no longer necessitating a hand fabricated one. The tubing transitions allow for smooth flow and the ends are hand dressed to ensure a good slip fit. The fact that the system allows a fair increase in power (for a cat-back alone) was definitely something I was looking for along with a sound that could actually bump it up a notch from factory. Borla delivered on all of this.

Where I think Borla could improve:

- Better address the heat shields. They could at least source the rear shields and attach them before boxing. The main (or large heat shield) I can see being reused but at the very least, Borla needs to include the process of reattaching them into their instructions. I'll bet 99% of the public wouldn't know how to adequately install the included "Band It" clamps. Just because a certain percentage of these installs may be done by a professional garage is no excuse, were that the response.

- Provide a means to attach a tie bar or spreader at the hangers that attach near the IRS center section. This would help maintain factory-like dimensional accuracy to that point in the system and would relegate any necessary adjustment from that point on to the muffler tips (instead of it being the full length of the system).

That's it. Borla has the means and the capability to do it. Neither were done because they felt they weren't necessary. They are and again, given the price people are being asked to pay for it the system deserves some additional attention.

The back and forth is killing me. My system will be in tomorrow and now I'm seriously debating on whether or not to install it.

Ok regarding the heatshields, I havent installed mine. I am looking into a few aftermarket options but because I am constantly adjusting pipes and tips I dont want to install it until its in the final position. That being said, I strongly believe they are unnecessary. I have a high quality laser temperature gun and after multiple 8250rpm runs today with oil temps at 220 and axle temps 180F, I went under the car and recorded:

Temperature of the pipe where the heatshields would go: 235F
Temperature of driveshaft: 150F
Temperature of the body panels as well as fuel tank covers: 60-70F
Temperature of the exterior IRS area: 70F
Ambient Temperature: 58F

I dont think the heatshield will make a drastic difference on any of these and I also dont think these temperatures are high.

As far as the alignment goes, I dont know how to weld and even if I did, I dont feel comfortable welding the exhaust to modify the hanger points. I have also noticed (and this is really bad I think), that the IRS area hanger (the front one) for the problematic passenger side is literally pulling all the way to the right. Thats probably why I cannot align that side because the hanger wont let it go further. This means for me to align that side, there is not much I can do from the front connection points, I can only adjust the rearmost muffler clamp connection. And that connection has no more adjust-ability left. Basically its at a point that if I move it further, the clamp wont seal properly due to the laser cut pieces having holes.

I will call FP or Borla tomorrow and ask them to address this. Maybe they have a solution but I am not going to modify the exhaust (and I dont think its an easy fix). At their expense, they can send me a muffler and take this one back. I know my install isnt the problem because driver side is literally perfect and required no work whereas the other side is pretty bad.

Cfirekirch said:

The back and forth is killing me. My system will be in tomorrow and now I'm seriously debating on whether or not to install it.

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Maybe I got a bad one, you can try yours. I dont think you can send it back can you?

Its not bad at all, first all I certainly can feel top end power/torque increase. Its not my butt dyno exaggerating this. 30 hp is significant and its quite apparent.

Second of all, the increase in volume/raspiness at high rpms is exponentially increasing which is pretty sweet. This basically means around 3000-4000 rpm the increase in volume isnt much but past 5-6k, it gets pretty loud.

I am just saying if you are in this only for sound, same result can probably be achieved by resonator delete (except obviously the normal mode will still be ridiculously quiet).

Just picked up mine today.

80.9lbs, and says mustang GT on the box lol. Nice FP, nice.

I installed mine Monday. I also had issues with getting the tips centered left to right in the openings. No issues with the valves thanks to Epiphany's post about making sure the motor is seated right. Agree that the fitment and adjustability could be better, as I had to get a bit creative with centering the tips. The instructions leave a lot to be desired. The car is quite a bit louder now, no rasp, but maybe a more blatty sound in lower RPM, has a deep tone, not horrible. At upper RPMs it rips pretty good, but has a nice tuned organized note. It definitely turns more heads. Once I pay the credit card bill and am assured there are no issues I will be pretty happy with it.

So were you able to center the tips afterall? My driver side is perfect left to right and top to bottom but passenger side is not okay. Not only tips are not level (outer tip is higher than the inner tip) but the overall both tips are not properly centered.

I am thinking of asking for a replcement either for that muffler or the small pipe between muffler and xpipe.

Also what sis you do for the heatshield? I still dont have mine installed

I will pm you.

I just wanted to say thanks again Epiphany. The pictures you posted helped a lot, as did your observations.

It wasnt overly complicated. I installed my BMR jacking rails Wednesday evening, put her up on stands Sunday morning, put 2 concrete blocks and topped that with some 1 inch wood - I know - not the best of safety options - but best I could do short notice. The OEM exhaust gets out fairly easy - maneuvering underneath the car if youre a big guy with a heavy onepiece exhaust either on your chest or legs aint easy...

I got the OEM exhaust out, started with the xpipe piece and loosely tightened the bolts. pulled the bend pieces through the hangers, raised them up and put the ends into the xpipe piece. Stuck the mufflers in, through the hangers, then connected.

My tailpipe alignment isnt perfect, but its fairly centered and doesnt bother me.

A couple of notes:

1. Once youve got all the parts in, align the mufflers in the tailpipes depthwise. I used the holes in the tailpipe to align the depth, and put them at the beginning of the first hole (so furthest in).

2) check that all the pipes are good - no gaps where the pipes connect. Once I thought I had it, the drivers side bent pipe was about half an inch further back than the passenger side..

3) I found that the inside pipes were pretty much spot on center. The outside pipes dropped down and hit the bottom of the tailpipe. What worked well for me was to lift the outside of the muffler with my knee while tightening the clamp between xpipe and middle bent pipe towards back - not between middle bent piece and mufflers. Thats where most of the movement is. Had to redo it 2 or 3 times, but it wasnt too bad. Theres not much adjustment you can do with the clamps between middle bent piece and mufflers.

4) make sure the hangars for the middle bent piece drop straight down. I made the mistake and angled them slightly out and had to loosen them again to get the diffusor plate back on.

5) This comes before 4: - :doh: :doh: :doh: - bang a lot on the exhaust and check for any rattles.. Thats when I figured out one Muffler dropped again, the outside pipe was close the the tailpipe and rattled till i tightened the clamp further.

6) Actuators were pretty easy. just make sure youve got them on the right side, make sure the valves are closed when you take the OEM exhaust off, and the valves are closed on the FP mufflers. And of course make sure you connect the cables. Make sure youre not in gear, start the car, and change into sport mode to check functionality.

Thats it - nothing crazy to it. Its def. louder than stock. Even normal mode is louder - hard to quantify - but noticeable. Sport mode is quite a bit louder, exhaust note seems to be more organized, but I havent had that much time with the FP exhaust.

That said - im not completely happy - yet at least. Ive got some rattle 2.5k-3.5k rpm at least in 1st and 2nd. It doesnt really sound metal on metal - not sure yet. Might be onesided - to be looked into. Def. need to get used to it - i will give it a while - but it may be louder than I want to stay. And honestly - maybe im imaging things.. but I feel its kinda drony > 4k... But that of course is different from person to person.

One thing I did notice on the way to the airport. Was stopped at a light - and the idle surged a bit. went from 500ish to just under 1k rpm, slight dip/rise in oil psi corresponding to up and down in rpm. First time I noticed that. Didnt notice it yesterday while driving around.

Ill give it some time - maybe just need to get used to it.

UnhandledException said:

I have to be honest here, I m not impressed with this exhaust. I never owned Borla before but I did do a lot of installa mostly eisenmann or akrapovic. Yes they cost substantially more but they were absolutely blast to install and it was always first try and it worked. This is so much work with borla and a lot of variation.

As far as the sound, yes its nice but I am absolutely certain if I deleted the resonators alone I would get 99% of the sound except the normal mode would still be quiet whereas with this exhaust normal mode is like 60-70% of sport mode before. I was expecting more for the price but then again maybe I had unrealistic expectations.

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Please remember that yours is a "Ford Racing By Borla" system which is not the same as the Borla system.

While it may look similar from the outside, the Borla system is very different. The muffler strategy is completely different.

The tips line up differently on the Borla system as well. More centered (there's a whole thread on this issue regarding the Borla system).

This is the Borla system - https://www.borla.com/products/mustang_shelby_gt350_catback_exhaust_atak_part__140684.html

Just want to make sure I clear up any confusion. The systems are completely different.