Clutch Spring Removal to Aid in Linear Pressure

BmacIL · Nov 21, 2015

GT Pony said:
Ok guys, based on the unloaded stock spring dimensions given to me by Cueball and Need 4 Speed, I found a softer spring made out of stainless steel that looks like it would work in place of the stock spring. And it's much softer, so the pedal would retain most of it's feel as with the spring out, but ensure the pedal is always fully up to the top when out. Anyone willing to order one and give it a try? Only $7.68.

http://www.centuryspring.com/Store/item_detail.php?StockNumber=S-290

I'm not sure that spring is a lot softer (59 lbs/in still). It'd be nice to find something in the 15-30 range.

Something like this:
http://www.centuryspring.com/Store/item_detail.php?StockNumber=72786S

GT Pony · Nov 21, 2015

GT Pony said:
Ok guys, based on the unloaded stock spring dimensions given to me by Cueball and Need 4 Speed, I found a softer spring made out of stainless steel that looks like it would work in place of the stock spring. And it's much softer, so the pedal would retain most of it's feel as with the spring out, but ensure the pedal is always fully up to the top when out. Anyone willing to order one and give it a try? Only $7.68.

http://www.centuryspring.com/Store/item_detail.php?StockNumber=S-290

BmacIL said:
I'm not sure that spring is a lot softer (59 lbs/in still). It'd be nice to find something in the 15-30 range.

Something like this:
http://www.centuryspring.com/Store/item_detail.php?StockNumber=72786S

Thanks, that one looks like it would physically work also. Supposedly, the stock spring is estimated to be around 200 lb/in (might not be that stiff?) ... so it would be nice if someone who has a valve spring measuring tool (or similar) could verify that.

So now we have two springs that might give people a choice of pedal feel, if the stock spring real is 200 lb/in. :thumbsup:

PonyGrrrl · Nov 22, 2015

On my 15 that Ford replaced under FL lemon law the clutch pedal was awful. It felt numb and I couldn't feel the engagement point in the pedal at all. I think the pedal was bent from the factory because I had to fight to keep my foot from slipping off the pedal no matter what shoes or sneakers I wore or seat position. It just felt wrong in so many ways.

On my 16 GT the clutch feels slightly heavier and I can feel everything making shifts so much smoother. Also the first thing I noticed when I started her for the first time was the clutch pedal felt like it was positioned properly and no more foot sliding on it. For the time being I'm keeping the spring installed, I only have about 200 miles on it so far.

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Need 4 Steed · Nov 22, 2015

Well I ball parked the spring rate. Standing on the spring it went down less than an inch and I weigh around 175. If anyone can figure out a better way, feel free

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Jeffy_2010 · Nov 22, 2015

Finally got around to removing mine today, wish I got to drive my car more to know if I gonna like it or not lol

richard0ne · Nov 23, 2015

Need 4 Steed said:
Well I ball parked the spring rate. Standing on the spring it went down less than an inch and I weigh around 175. If anyone can figure out a better way, feel free

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Did it make the spring less stiff? I did this mod and it's NIGHT and DAY!! Buttt... there's a lil play when fully engaged :frusty: I have found myself raising the peddle with my left foot since I know about the lil play! I guess I'm more paranoid lol

If anyone knows a spring that will fit and that is less stiff, but stiff enough to get the pedal all the way up when engaged I'll buy you a beer!

GT Pony · Nov 23, 2015

richard0ne said:
If anyone knows a spring that will fit and that is less stiff, but stiff enough to get the pedal all the way up when engaged I'll buy you a beer!

See post #715. A couple of softer springs were found that look like they would physically fit in place of the stock spring, but are softer (one is about 3 times as soft and the other about 8 times as soft). If anyone is willing to get one and try it, then it could be the way to go. I'd do it expect my GT is parked for the winter and insurance is suspended for storage.

richard0ne · Nov 23, 2015

GT Pony said:
See post #715. A couple of softer springs were found that look like they would physically fit in place of the stock spring, but are softer (one is about 3 times as soft and the other about 8 times as soft). If anyone is willing to get one and try it, then it could be the way to go. I'd do it expect my GT is parked for the winter and insurance is suspended for storage.

I'll call Century Spring tomorrow and talk with them. I wish I knew the lb/in of the stock one.. I know that sucker is pretty though!

I'm going to call around my area to see if there's a shop that can measure my stock spring.. then I'll go on from there and order it!

GT Pony · Nov 23, 2015

richard0ne said:
I'll call Century Spring tomorrow and talk with them. I wish I knew the lb/in of the stock one.. I know that sucker is pretty though!

I'm going to call around my area to see if there's a shop that can measure my stock spring.. then I'll go on from there and order it!

Find a shop with a valve spring measuring tool that will give the lbs/in spring rate. If you order a softer spring and test it out, please let us know how it works. :thumbsup:

richard0ne · Nov 25, 2015

GT Pony said:
Find a shop with a valve spring measuring tool that will give the lbs/in spring rate. If you order a softer spring and test it out, please let us know how it works.

So it looks like there will have to be an order of $50 or more for them to deliver. They are about an hour away from me so haven't had the chance.

However, speaking to my buddy who use to work at Dodge and numerous clutch shops, they all said there should be some play at the top so it won't stress out the release bearings. Told them about taking out the spring assist and they said it's absolutely fine.

The Ford dealer said it's not a mechanical part and it should not have an adverse effect on the clutch.

In the meanwhile, I'll be leaving if off and if I do have any clutch problems, I'll put it back lol

GT Pony · Nov 25, 2015

richard0ne said:
So it looks like there will have to be an order of $50 or more for them to deliver.

That sucks ... was hoping on of the two picked out would plug and play, and work out to keep the pedal at the top and maybe add just a little assist force. Thanks for the update.

Genxer · Nov 25, 2015

richard0ne said:
So it looks like there will have to be an order of $50 or more for them to deliver. They are about an hour away from me so haven't had the chance.

However, speaking to my buddy who use to work at Dodge and numerous clutch shops, they all said there should be some play at the top so it won't stress out the release bearings. Told them about taking out the spring assist and they said it's absolutely fine.

The Ford dealer said it's not a mechanical part and it should not have an adverse effect on the clutch.

In the meanwhile, I'll be leaving if off and if I do have any clutch problems, I'll put it back lol

That's encouraging, however can anyone shed light from the link in (my) post #641?

GT Pony · Nov 25, 2015

Genxer said:
That's encouraging, however can anyone shed light from the link in (my) post #641?

From what I'm reading in the article (shown below and in Post #641) about the clutch pedal return spring, it sounds like "clutch stayout" was occurring (when the clutch pedal stays on the floor when released) because the clutch pedal return spring is too soft (ie, "below the expected force values").

I always thought "clutch stayout" was caused by weak pressure plate springs being overcome by centripetal force of the spinning clutch assembly, not anything to do with the clutch pedal assist/return spring.:shrug: But apparently is sounds like the clutch pedal spring helps out the pressure plate spring to re-engage the clutch under high RPM conditions.

So is anyone who has removed their clutch pedal assist/return spring experiencing any "clutch stayout" at high RPM shifting?

http://mustangsdaily.com/blog/2011/...ion-of-the-mustangs-mt82-6-speed-transmission

Clutch Stayout Problems:
Approximately 24 percent of the reports refer to an issue identified by Ford as “clutch stayout” where the rotating inertia of the clutch components can be higher than the spring force provided by the clutch pedal return spring when gears are shifted at engine speeds greater than approximately 4,000 rpm. Under these conditions the clutch will reengage when engine rpm is reduced to a speed where the clutch pedal return spring overcomes the rotating inertia of the clutch components. This condition does not prevent selection of any gear.

Solution:
An investigation into the root cause of these reports identified that variability in the spring forces in the population of clutch pedal return springs allowed some springs to be below the expected force values and allow the condition to occur. Replacement clutch pedal parts were made available and a revised spring design has been implemented.

GT Pony · Nov 25, 2015

Here's the TSB 10-19-04 referred to in the article. It says to replace the brake pedal assy, but I think it's a mis-print and means the clutch pedal assy. I'm assuming the clutch pedal assist spring was part of the change in the new pedal assy (?) - doesn't get very specific in the TSB.

http://mustangsdaily.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/tsb10-19-04.pdf

Edkiefer · Nov 26, 2015

GT Pony said:
From what I'm reading in the article (shown below and in Post #641) about the clutch pedal return spring, it sounds like "clutch stayout" was occurring (when the clutch pedal stays on the floor when released) because the clutch pedal return spring is too soft (ie, "below the expected force values").

I always thought "clutch stayout" was caused by weak pressure plate springs being overcome by centripetal force of the spinning clutch assembly, not anything to do with the clutch pedal assist/return spring.:shrug: But apparently is sounds like the clutch pedal spring helps out the pressure plate spring to re-engage the clutch under high RPM conditions.

So is anyone who has removed their clutch pedal assist/return spring experiencing any "clutch stayout" at high RPM shifting?

http://mustangsdaily.com/blog/2011/...ion-of-the-mustangs-mt82-6-speed-transmission

Clutch Stayout Problems:
Approximately 24 percent of the reports refer to an issue identified by Ford as “clutch stayout” where the rotating inertia of the clutch components can be higher than the spring force provided by the clutch pedal return spring when gears are shifted at engine speeds greater than approximately 4,000 rpm. Under these conditions the clutch will reengage when engine rpm is reduced to a speed where the clutch pedal return spring overcomes the rotating inertia of the clutch components. This condition does not prevent selection of any gear.

Solution:
An investigation into the root cause of these reports identified that variability in the spring forces in the population of clutch pedal return springs allowed some springs to be below the expected force values and allow the condition to occur. Replacement clutch pedal parts were made available and a revised spring design has been implemented.

Hi GT pony

this is my opinion , I don't think the clutch pedal can affect that in a hydro type system.
What you describe to me sounds more like this .
When you press the diaphragm the fingers can get past over center if pressed to far , this is were rotational force will cause fingers to stay in . This shouldn't happen in well designed clutch as more the disc wears the more the fingers move out .
Though the new mustangs use a self adjusting PP so not sure with it .Used to be you make sure you never go past center over travel with adjustment(you can feel this in pedal with old cable/mechanical types).

That said, if the PP is real weak then it might not be good for very high rpm shifts , but I don't see how return spring in pedal would alter that.

Clutch Spring Removal to Aid in Linear Pressure

BmacIL

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