2018 truck manifold on a gen 2 coyote

[Rick#7]

I'm going to start looking more into the current pricing of swapping to this manifold with all costs start to finish, knowing that a tune will be required. My own 2015 hasn't had the issues that my nephews' car did, but the imrc failure is a known issue for all gen 2 coyotes, so if I can do a preemptive swap to avoid a forced downtime repair, gain some bottom end power without losing any top end in the process, that sounds like a good upgrade to me. I'm not sure what the exact failure rate is for the gen 2 manifolds, but it's enough that even a basic google inquiry calls it a "very common issue", so I can tell the Mrs it's a maintenance upgrade to fix a known problem before it breaks, and justify it to my wallet with more peace of mind and improved fun factor from the butt dyno!

I'm guessing as a truck manifold that it sits a little higher than stock, are you aware of any interference with a strut tower brace?

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[K4fxd]

it fits under the stock mustang strut tower brace.

Many shops throw these away. Manifold cost should be inexpensive.

 

[K4fxd]

https://www.vmpperformance.com/VMP-...s-for-2018-GT-intake-manifold-on-2015-2017-GT

This is the harness I use. Have had it several years no issues.

Tuning costs have gone crazy. 5 star used to be 150 now 300.

 

[Rick#7]

Yeah I figured getting a tuning device and a custom tune would be the most expensive part of the whole project! When my nephew was looking at his options, he ultimately went with a new gen 2 manifold he found on ebay, primarily because he wasn't comfortable doing the labor himself, and the cost of the shop to do the work plus adapter harness and tune, it all outweighed the cost of a simple r&r of a stock part. If I had a tuner already and the biggest hurdle was just the cost of a tune, this would be easier for me to justify, but my current plan of attack is seeing if I can find someone offering a tuner bundled with a custom tune AND is familiar with the tuning needs of this specific manifold beyond just the IMRC differences.

 

[K4fxd]

I'll give you the tune if you can find a device to flash it with. Someone in your area has either HP tuners or PcmTec software. I'm still working on getting the most out of the manifold, but honestly a stock tune with the imrc change runs fine.

 

[Rick#7]

That's a very generous offer, Thank You! I'm scrolling classifieds and marketplace listings for an unlocked used SCT. So far, all the cheap ones are locked, and what SCT charges to unlock them, I really wouldn't bother with that unless they just gave me the thing and I know that's not happening LOL. I see several unlocked units that the sellers want $300-$350 for, and I can't really see that as much of a bargain either when brand new is showing $399, and I'm pretty sure I can find a promo code or one time coupon to get 10% off. I'm trying to collect what I'd need as cheaply as possible, I'm pretty anal about spending carelessly, and if I find something I bought later on at a cheaper price I kick myself for paying too much, so I usually spend way too much time researching prices and hunting for deals before pulling the trigger, but I'll get there

 

[K4fxd]

I do have pcmtec software and it can use the sct device to flash but I'm not sure my version is capable of using that platform.

I almost am finished with the tune, I'm currently working on part throttle cam timing and it really wakes up the car. I'll post the tune here if the forum allows .hpt or .tec files

I'm sick and tired of the Ford tuners thinking their tune is some kind of secret voodoo sauce. (pun intended)

I'm working on a write up of how Ford's HDFX system works and will give that away also.

If I can't post here I will post it on HP tuners and PCMtec's forums. My user name is K44 on both platforms.

 

[engineermike]

I'm sick and tired of the Ford tuners thinking their tune is some kind of secret voodoo sauce. (pun intended)

Yes 100%. They lock people in to sub-optimal combinations because “that’s what your tuner recommends” when really they just already have a tune for it they can sell you with basically zero effort on their part. And not only do they not activate tons of awesome features ford built into the logic and didn’t use, but they’ll even disable great things ford did because it makes their jobs easier. And to make things worse, they make you spend extra money on devices who’s sole purpose is to lock you out of the your own tune you paid for and take it a step further at times and dont even allow you to see your own datalog of the tune you bought from the device you bought. Then you’re completely at their mercy for troubleshooting or even monitoring.

 

[Rick#7]

Yes 100%. They lock people in to sub-optimal combinations because “that’s what your tuner recommends” when really they just already have a tune for it they can sell you with basically zero effort on their part. And not only do they not activate tons of awesome features ford built into the logic and didn’t use, but they’ll even disable great things ford did because it makes their jobs easier. And to make things worse, they make you spend extra money on devices who’s sole purpose is to lock you out of the your own tune you paid for and take it a step further at times and dont even allow you to see your own datalog of the tune you bought from the device you bought. Then you’re completely at their mercy for troubleshooting or even monitoring.

That's the business model at work. For them, it's necessary to keep the customer in a position of continually needing their service, that's how their business succeeds. It's the same basic principle being used in most of corporate America these days. That's why everything you buy today has planned obsolescence, they figured out a long time ago that if they build something that lasts too long, your customers don't have a reason to come back to buy it again. When it comes to services, the same model applies, only it's a matter of keeping everything proprietary, and addressing only enough to get paid, instead of truly and completely fixing the issue.

 

[offroadkarter]

Is this the best manifold for power? NO, is it a great replacement for a gen 2 mustang? IMO yes. It got a bad rap because the gen 2 truck manifold was a turd. Ford put some engineering time in both the gen 3 gt, and truck manifolds.

Not to hijack this a ton but I've long wondered how much better the Gen 3 truck intake is compared to the Gen 2 truck intake. I know years back people on this forum were playing with Gen 2 truck intakes on Mustangs and I thought you were one of em.

Gen 3 truck manifolds are cheap and I have a 16 F150 5.0.

 

[Rick#7]

Dan (K4fxd) may have more specific info, but in my own research I know that prior to the gen 3 coming out, there were some F150 owners experimenting with Mustang intakes with good results. Although I don't have actual dyno sheets directly comparing the gen3 F150 intake to either of the Gen 2 intakes, it is my strong opinion from interpolating dyno comparisons that I found for Gen 2 and gen 3 mustang intakes as well as gen 3 F150 and Mustang intakes, that the gen 3 F150 manifold compared to the gen 2 Mustang offers at a minimum a modest bump in torque below 4k rpm with absolutely no loss in peak hp, and at best may increase torque as much as 20 lb-ft at certain rpm's while extending the top end as much as 500 rpm.

Considering the drivability goals that were engineered into the gen 2 F150 intake, and how they actually worked in the real world, I would guess that the gen 3 would likely perform very similarly off idle and low rpm to the gen 2. It's very possible you wouldn't notice much difference at all below 3500-4000 rpm, however the gen 3 has so much improved air flow over the gen 2, that once the rpm gets over 4k it should pull much harder well past the rpm that the gen 2 version just gives up. As I said, this is just my opinion, YMMV

 

[Pistol_91]

I always loved VCT talk whether it's WOT or fuel economy.

Curious to hear your opinion on how optimal cam angles would look when throwing FI into the equation.

 

[K4fxd]

From my past and current testing the 18 up truck manifold out performs the 2017 GT manifold in every area.

I'm almost done with the tune just need to fine tune some areas and then hit the track or use my draggy. The truck manifold pulls at least to 7000, possibly 7250. Load stays above .8 till 7100. This is better than the gen 2 mustang manifold

 

[offroadkarter]

Dan (K4fxd) may have more specific info, but in my own research I know that prior to the gen 3 coming out, there were some F150 owners experimenting with Mustang intakes with good results. Although I don't have actual dyno sheets directly comparing the gen3 F150 intake to either of the Gen 2 intakes, it is my strong opinion from interpolating dyno comparisons that I found for Gen 2 and gen 3 mustang intakes as well as gen 3 F150 and Mustang intakes, that the gen 3 F150 manifold compared to the gen 2 Mustang offers at a minimum a modest bump in torque below 4k rpm with absolutely no loss in peak hp, and at best may increase torque as much as 20 lb-ft at certain rpm's while extending the top end as much as 500 rpm.

Considering the drivability goals that were engineered into the gen 2 F150 intake, and how they actually worked in the real world, I would guess that the gen 3 would likely perform very similarly off idle and low rpm to the gen 2. It's very possible you wouldn't notice much difference at all below 3500-4000 rpm, however the gen 3 has so much improved air flow over the gen 2, that once the rpm gets over 4k it should pull much harder well past the rpm that the gen 2 version just gives up. As I said, this is just my opinion, YMMV

From my past and current testing the 18 up truck manifold out performs the 2017 GT manifold in every area.

I'm almost done with the tune just need to fine tune some areas and then hit the track or use my draggy. The truck manifold pulls at least to 7000, possibly 7250. Load stays above .8 till 7100. This is better than the gen 2 mustang manifold

Mulling this all over in my head, it sounds like a worst case scenario putting a gen 3 truck intake on my gen 2 truck which is tuned to rev to 7000 should yield better power past 5000rpm where I believe the gen 2 truck intake starts to fall off. Sounds pretty reasonable for an intake you can find for like 200 bucks on marketplace.

I'll stop thread hijacking now, will be interested to see more results with more testing.

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