GT350 1:30.144 PB at Willow Springs Big Willow (any tips on how to get to sub 1:30?)

[GT350Willow]

Got a new PB at Willow Springs 2.5-mile Big Willow track over this past weekend. The organization I ran with, Speed Ventures, had their own timing and transponder setup, which says I got a faster time of 1:30.103. I am going with the higher time from my own track timing setup. I filmed both POVs with GoPros, which had their own track recording and data collection capabilities, and synced the videos using RaceRender 3.

For this run, I was using a 305/325 19 wheel setup with GoodYear Supercar F1 3Rs that had already been heavily tracked the day prior and earlier that day, as this was my last session of the day. The weather was good, with temperatures in the 70s all day and a strong crosswind. Drivetrain is stock, but the suspension has been completely upgraded with Steeda components. The aero is stock, too, being the base OEM GT350 aero.

Also, I know that at the end, after turn 9, it got loose. The tires were very worn at this point.

Anyone with experience got any tips on where I can shave some more time? Anything else that stands out that I can improve on? Additional mods?

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[honeybadger]

@Flyhalf

 

[tj@steeda]

@Steeda-Sergio - anything stick out or come to mind from a road race perspective?

 

[GT350Willow]

Also forgot to mention: at the end of the track day, I checked the codes because the engine sounded like a C6 ZR1 with a cam and shook like you're driving over potholes while idle. The engine threw its timing and does have a retarted timing code, and it looks like it happened earlier in the day, but I didn't really feel it on track. I'm taking it to get serviced tomorrow.

 

[PP0001]

Got a new PB at Willow Springs 2.5-mile Big Willow track over this past weekend. The organization I ran with, Speed Ventures, had their own timing and transponder setup, which says I got a faster time of 1:30.103. I am going with the higher time from my own track timing setup. I filmed both POVs with GoPros, which had their own track recording and data collection capabilities, and synced the videos using RaceRender 3.

For this run, I was using a 305/325 19 wheel setup with GoodYear Supercar F1 3Rs that had already been heavily tracked the day prior and earlier that day, as this was my last session of the day. The weather was good, with temperatures in the 70s all day and a strong crosswind. Drivetrain is stock, but the suspension has been completely upgraded with Steeda components. The aero is stock, too, being the base OEM GT350 aero.

Also, I know that at the end, after turn 9, it got loose. The tires were very worn at this point.

Anyone with experience got any tips on where I can shave some more time? Anything else that stands out that I can improve on? Additional mods?

Looks like you have your GT350 dialed in pretty well with you obviously having a fair bit of seat time from what I can tell therefore nice job of driving!

With respect to you shaving off some lap time and improving your PB at Willow Springs, have you ever given any thought to purchasing a 2015-2018 Mustang Shelby GT350R Base model as that would certainly do it for you!

 

[Kevlar 74]

Nothing really stands out to me but l personally gained the most time by setting up for the straits a little cleaner and just a bit slower in the 5-6 transition (Monroe’s) and 9 so l could give it the full beans earlier and thus higher top speeds.

 

[SheepDog]

Also forgot to mention: at the end of the track day, I checked the codes because the engine sounded like a C6 ZR1 with a cam and shook like you're driving over potholes while idle. The engine threw its timing and does have a retarted timing code, and it looks like it happened earlier in the day, but I didn't really feel it on track. I'm taking it to get serviced tomorrow.

Taking it to get serviced, as in replacing the engine?

What do you mean when you say, "threw its timing"?

 

[GT350Willow]

Taking it to get serviced, as in replacing the engine?

What do you mean when you say, "threw its timing"?

It threw up codes P0022 for retarded timing and P0020 for the camshaft position actuator on the left bank, but no check engine light. I still don't know if the engine will need to be replaced, but it's still under warranty, so no big issue.

 

[GT350Willow]

Looks like you have your GT350 dialed in pretty well with you obviously having a fair bit of seat time from what I can tell therefore nice job of driving!

With respect to you shaving off some lap time and improving your PB at Willow Springs, have you ever given any thought to purchasing a 2015-2018 Mustang Shelby GT350R Base model as that would certainly do it for you!

Yeah, I did, but it didn't seem like the right time or really worth the money to flush out now with the C8 Z06, which, lightly used, you can find at a really good deal, the new Grand Sport that was showcased, or even a Dark Horse SC. I really like these cars, and their value today should be a lot higher in my opinion, but it doesn't seem like a great idea to shell out, last I checked, almost 90 grand for another similar low-mileage example, like when I got my 350, when there are aftermarket options that can get me over the mark. I ran that lap with base 350 aero and minimal weight reduction, with the weight reduction coming from the wheels, and I'm thinking of getting a bigger front splitter, dual dive-plane canards, a wing, and undercarriage aero too. One of the only 2 other other road-legal cars that day that ran a faster time was a C8 Z06 with a combination of ZR1 aero and custom carbon aero and what ever else that guy had done to it, but even with all of that, the guy ran a best lap less than 2 seconds faster than me that day and a 992.2 GT3 RS but he didn't have his time listed. I know a factory C8 Z06/07 can do around a 1:28 on the track in cold conditions, so I think I could beat that time, especially with a similar setup as that guy.

 

[PP0001]

Yeah, I did, but it didn't seem like the right time or really worth the money to flush out now with the C8 Z06, which, lightly used, you can find at a really good deal, the new Grand Sport that was showcased, or even a Dark Horse SC. I really like these cars, and their value today should be a lot higher in my opinion, but it doesn't seem like a great idea to shell out, last I checked, almost 90 grand for another similar low-mileage example, like when I got my 350, when there are aftermarket options that can get me over the mark. I ran that lap with base 350 aero and minimal weight reduction, with the weight reduction coming from the wheels, and I'm thinking of getting a bigger front splitter, dual dive-plane canards, a wing, and undercarriage aero too. One of the only 2 other other road-legal cars that day that ran a faster time was a C8 Z06 with a combination of ZR1 aero and custom carbon aero and what ever else that guy had done to it, but even with all of that, the guy ran a best lap less than 2 seconds faster than me that day and a 992.2 GT3 RS but he didn't have his time listed. I know a factory C8 Z06/07 can do around a 1:28 on the track in cold conditions, so I think I could beat that time, especially with a similar setup as that guy.

Not sure if you have had any seat time in a Mustang Shelby GT350R but based on my experience at Sebring back in October 2015 when I had the opportunity to get some seat time in 2016 GT350 V 2016 GT350R pre-production examples and after piloting a 4-seat GT350 V a 2-seat GT350R back-to-back the braking, handling, steering and overall driving engagement was like day and night.

Items such as larger and stickier Cup 2 tires, larger and lighter CF wheels, larger front splitter and CF rear wing, stiffer/shorter springs and when it comes to the Base R model with curb weight of only ~3,620 pounds, obviously that makes a significant difference in lap times.

The $90K that you speak of, which brand and model of vehicle were you referring to?

 

[5.2 liters of democracy]

Having instructed with NASA Socal for a few years here's what I'm seeing:

General:

1. You're moving your hands a lot rather than keeping them at 9 and 3. For example, turn 1 you downshift with steering input and grab the bottom of the wheel. I'd recommend downshifting with as little steering input as possible and returning your hands to 9 and 3 immediately.
2. Your seating position seems like it could be a little too far back, but that could also be the camera effect. I like a little more bend in my elbows. That will also help you with hand position.
3. You're not always using all the track. That just takes time working up to where the speed can naturally carry you all the way out within the limits of grip.

Turn by turn:

Turn 1: You can brake a later than you are. That turn has more banking than it appears to when you're in a car. If you do a track walk, you'll be amazed at how much more banking is there to help your scrub speed.

Turn 2: Stay mid-track longer, it will help you set up better and you'll be able to accelerate sooner since your exit angle won't be as exaggerated.

Turn 3: You're coasting just before your turn in which I'd avoid. I'd stay on throttle a little longer if you have the enough RPM there. You also seem to drift a little bit away from the right side of the track before turning in. Just work on keeping it far right until you turn in. In my opinion, you're also driving too far up the hill and turning in too late to properly set up for turn 4.

Turn 4: The earlier turn in and adjusted angle is going to set you up to be closer to that apex. The cone may move depending on the day but you can focus on apexing at the flag station. After the apex your angle is great, but there's a secong a second cone after that where I'd like to see you turn in at. You're turning in a little early there. Once you do that, you're going to set up for where you're going to begin making up a lot of time: Turn 5.

Turn 5: After the later exit of turn 4, clip the apex on your right between 4 and 5, brake down to the inside of turn 5 rather than going wide. You're on the right and you should be on the left. Being on the left lets you turn in more aggressively and straighten out your steering inputs much more before getting light over the crest of 6. Doing this lets you get on throttle way earlier and stay on throttle all the way through 8. Right now you're applying most of your inputs into and over the crest of 6 which isn't letting your carry nearly as much speed as you could.

Turn 6: Like I said above, you're wanting the straightest line over this as possible to set yourself up for turns 7 and 8. This is where you're losing the most time IMO because it has a cascading effect with 7, 8, and 9. With the things above setting you up for success, you'll exit with much higher speed. Track out to the left with as much throttle as you're comfortable with to set up for 7.

Turn 7: After tracking all the way left out of turn 6, move the car mid-track, give the car just enough input to make it through 7 so you can stay parallel with the left side of the track briefly, then get ready to turn into 7. There's a green building you can look for in the distance. When you're pointed toward that, you can begin turning in gradually toward the apex of 8. You're cutting a diagonal out of 6 and going into 8, never pointing the car toward that building.

Turn 8: You're on the right side of the track way too early. You want to stay left as mentioned above and then gradually turn into turn 8. You'll spend some time on the inside of 8 until you are pointed toward/just past the white barn in the distance. Work on tracking all the way out to your left and then braking in as straight a line as you can, but it can be really spooky. Despite what the track map looks like, you'll get a feel for where the straighter section back there is.

Turn 9: After braking, stay left briefly, then begin a gradual turn in with maintenance throttle to get the straightest line through turn 9. Keep your eyes up and look beyond the apex. That's going to set you up for the most speed on the straight.

Final recommendations: Change your pants, Big Willow is spooky lol. But seriously, don't go out and try to do all these at once. A lot of what I posted above should be done once you get more comfortable with the lines.

I'd recommend using one session minimum just to work on nailing 5/6. I see a lot of people get frustrated at 3/4/5 and think they're losing so much time there then overdrive it. Try to avoid that. I watched a GT4 in HPDE 1 roll over doing exactly that. Work up to everything and stay in your comfort zone. Penske isn't out there recruiting us. We're all lighting money on fire for plastic trophies and the happy chemical that makes our monkey brains excited.

I'm more than happy to ride passenger seat anytime you're out there as well. Just shoot me a message here or on Instagram and we'll get it set up.

 

[GT350Willow]

Not sure if you have had any seat time in a Mustang Shelby GT350R but based on my experience at Sebring back in October 2015 when I had the opportunity to get some seat time in 2016 GT350 V 2016 GT350R pre-production examples and after piloting a 4-seat GT350 V a 2-seat GT350R back-to-back the braking, handling, steering and overall driving engagement was like day and night.

Items such as larger and stickier Cup 2 tires, larger and lighter CF wheels, larger front splitter and CF rear wing, stiffer/shorter springs and when it comes to the Base R model with curb weight of only ~3,620 pounds, obviously that makes a significant difference in lap times.

The $90K that you speak of, which brand and model of vehicle were you referring to?

I also agree that in their stock forms, the difference between an R and a non-R version is worth the value. My car has extensive suspension and subframe modifications that put it at least on par with the R in those terms. And my wheels are lightweight forged wheels that are between 20 and 21 pounds, and a whole set after the recent sale at Apex costs around 3000, while the R's CF wheels are around 15 to 17 pounds, and a new set is 20,000, and used, if you can find good condition ones, are 10,000 at least. I also ran that lap with 305s on the front and 325s on the rear wrapped in GoodYear Supercar F1 3Rs, which, in my experience, are significantly better than cup 2s. There is still a way to go in terms of what I want to do with the car, like more weight reduction without compromising streetablility, and even more extreme aero than on the R or GT500 CFTP. The 90K I was talking about are the GT350Rs, or at least low-mileage, late-model-year examples. From what I could tell, the ones I would be looking at are over 90K as of now, with higher-mileage, worse-condition examples in the 80 K range regularly.

 

[GT350Willow]

Having instructed with NASA Socal for a few years here's what I'm seeing:

General:

1. You're moving your hands a lot rather than keeping them at 9 and 3. For example, turn 1 you downshift with steering input and grab the bottom of the wheel. I'd recommend downshifting with as little steering input as possible and returning your hands to 9 and 3 immediately.
2. Your seating position seems like it could be a little too far back, but that could also be the camera effect. I like a little more bend in my elbows. That will also help you with hand position.
3. You're not always using all the track. That just takes time working up to where the speed can naturally carry you all the way out within the limits of grip.

Turn by turn:

Turn 1: You can brake a later than you are. That turn has more banking than it appears to when you're in a car. If you do a track walk, you'll be amazed at how much more banking is there to help your scrub speed.

Turn 2: Stay mid-track longer, it will help you set up better and you'll be able to accelerate sooner since your exit angle won't be as exaggerated.

Turn 3: You're coasting just before your turn in which I'd avoid. I'd stay on throttle a little longer if you have the enough RPM there. You also seem to drift a little bit away from the right side of the track before turning in. Just work on keeping it far right until you turn in. In my opinion, you're also driving too far up the hill and turning in too late to properly set up for turn 4.

Turn 4: The earlier turn in and adjusted angle is going to set you up to be closer to that apex. The cone may move depending on the day but you can focus on apexing at the flag station. After the apex your angle is great, but there's a secong a second cone after that where I'd like to see you turn in at. You're turning in a little early there. Once you do that, you're going to set up for where you're going to begin making up a lot of time: Turn 5.

Turn 5: After the later exit of turn 4, clip the apex on your right between 4 and 5, brake down to the inside of turn 5 rather than going wide. You're on the right and you should be on the left. Being on the left lets you turn in more aggressively and straighten out your steering inputs much more before getting light over the crest of 6. Doing this lets you get on throttle way earlier and stay on throttle all the way through 8. Right now you're applying most of your inputs into and over the crest of 6 which isn't letting your carry nearly as much speed as you could.

Turn 6: Like I said above, you're wanting the straightest line over this as possible to set yourself up for turns 7 and 8. This is where you're losing the most time IMO because it has a cascading effect with 7, 8, and 9. With the things above setting you up for success, you'll exit with much higher speed. Track out to the left with as much throttle as you're comfortable with to set up for 7.

Turn 7: After tracking all the way left out of turn 6, move the car mid-track, give the car just enough input to make it through 7 so you can stay parallel with the left side of the track briefly, then get ready to turn into 7. There's a green building you can look for in the distance. When you're pointed toward that, you can begin turning in gradually toward the apex of 8. You're cutting a diagonal out of 6 and going into 8, never pointing the car toward that building.

Turn 8: You're on the right side of the track way too early. You want to stay left as mentioned above and then gradually turn into turn 8. You'll spend some time on the inside of 8 until you are pointed toward/just past the white barn in the distance. Work on tracking all the way out to your left and then braking in as straight a line as you can, but it can be really spooky. Despite what the track map looks like, you'll get a feel for where the straighter section back there is.

Turn 9: After braking, stay left briefly, then begin a gradual turn in with maintenance throttle to get the straightest line through turn 9. Keep your eyes up and look beyond the apex. That's going to set you up for the most speed on the straight.

Final recommendations: Change your pants, Big Willow is spooky lol. But seriously, don't go out and try to do all these at once. A lot of what I posted above should be done once you get more comfortable with the lines.

I'd recommend using one session minimum just to work on nailing 5/6. I see a lot of people get frustrated at 3/4/5 and think they're losing so much time there then overdrive it. Try to avoid that. I watched a GT4 in HPDE 1 roll over doing exactly that. Work up to everything and stay in your comfort zone. Penske isn't out there recruiting us. We're all lighting money on fire for plastic trophies and the happy chemical that makes our monkey brains excited.

I'm more than happy to ride passenger seat anytime you're out there as well. Just shoot me a message here or on Instagram and we'll get it set up.

Thanks for the feedback. I will try to get one or two more track days in before the hot season really starts, but it completely depends on the weather. For the pants, what do you suggest I wear instead? Also, I saw a lot of people that day wearing race suits, but I don't feel like I really need one for my case. How do they feel when driving? Are they too restrictive?

 

[5.2 liters of democracy]

Thanks for the feedback. I will try to get one or two more track days in before the hot season really starts, but it completely depends on the weather. For the pants, what do you suggest I wear instead? Also, I saw a lot of people that day wearing race suits, but I don't feel like I really need one for my case. How do they feel when driving? Are they too restrictive?

Oh I was just joking that Willow Springs is a terrifying track that'll make people shit their pants. No need to a race suit at this point, but I do find mine comfortable. Best if you're using them with a coolshirt because they get warm fast in Socal, especially when you're sitting on grid for 15 minutes.

 

[Terlingua17]

Everything the driving instructor said is spot on. I drove many yrs there in a live axle Mustang & you steer more with the throttle the steering wheel is to aim and the throttle ta steer. Turn 2 was my favorite & a great place to pass cars in HSR West races. Willow Springs the funnest track for sure

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