I hate to bring this up but....

[Bikeman315]

>>>>>ah, the good old days: and check your oil level , tire pressure and top off the fluids... brings back great memories. One of my jobs when I was trying to pay my way through school. (Standard Oil Station) I remember we had to show the dip stick to the customer.

So true...... Ours was an Esso/Exxon station. Didn’t have canopies back then so it was hell in rain and snow.

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[V00D00]

In NJ I think it’s a case of wanting something you cannot have. I too remember full service stations. My father in law owned one. Used to work weekends pumping gas for a few extra bucks. I wonder how many forum members would actually use one if they were not allowed to touch their car. You do, I did, but that’s just us.

It would be 80%.
20 minutes for an inbred to pump your gas takes way too much time

 

[piglet13]

Workers are free to work for any company, or to start their own business. And lots of people hop jobs over and over to get raises, different experience, etc. Corporations don't have to care

Workers are free to work for any company, or to start their own business. And lots of people hop jobs over and over to get raises, different experience, etc. Corporations don't have to care about workers, just like workers don't have to care about the corporation they work for. However, if the corporation doesn't offer to pay the worker as much money as their competitors do, the workers will go work for another company. And the best workers will start their own competing companies and beat the corporation at its own game. There's no need for a union for workers to get a "fair" wage. Competition naturally takes care of that.

With no union, the best workers get paid a lot and the worst workers don't get paid much or they get fired. With a union, there's no motivation to work hard. If the employees don't work hard, the company produces fewer products. Then the company isn't as competitive and may end up going out of business.



Everyone in the world benefits from the great products that are produced by American businesses and American people. Companies can't sell products unless they are able to make a product that is better than the products made by the competition. Successful companies employ a lot of people and produce products that benefit lots of people. Making money is something that companies need to do in order to hire people to develop and make more products. Economics 101.

Ford darn will cut the cost of the Mustang if no one can afford the expensive version. Same goes for every product you and I buy every day. If everyone starts buying something else that's cheaper, the companies will try to figure out how to change the products they make so that people will buy them. Right now, we both know that the GT350 was too cheap from Ford. So lots of people including me paid more than MSRP for a GT350. I would argue that Mustang is priced quite well. It's a performance bargain - especially the base Mustang.

Big companies aren't our enemies. You need a big company with lots of resources to be able to develop and build complex and expensive things like cars. But you have the cause and effect backwards. Companies aren't "sticking it to the little guy". They are trying to make products that every little guy wants to buy. And by making great products, those companies benefit all of us. They especially benefit their employees. And it's a free relationship for the employees. IF there's something better out there, those people can quit at any time and go to work for another company. Companies need to attract and keep employees. And they do that by paying them well.

The middle class isn't dead. Most of us are in the middle class, by my way of thinking. But some people are greedy and think that their middle class life isn't good enough. Or they think just because they can't afford every single thing they want that they can't be in the middle class.

workers, just like workers don't have to care about the corporation they work for. However, if the corporation doesn't offer to pay the worker as much money as their competitors do, the workers will go work for another company. And the best workers will start their own competing companies and beat the corporation at its own game. There's no need for a union for workers to get a "fair" wage. Competition naturally takes care of that.

With no union, the best workers get paid a lot and the worst workers don't get paid much or they get fired. With a union, there's no motivation to work hard. If the employees don't work hard, the company produces fewer products. Then the company isn't as competitive and may end up going out of business.



Everyone in the world benefits from the great products that are produced by American businesses and American people. Companies can't sell products unless they are able to make a product that is better than the products made by the competition. Successful companies employ a lot of people and produce products that benefit lots of people. Making money is something that companies need to do in order to hire people to develop and make more products. Economics 101.

Ford darn will cut the cost of the Mustang if no one can afford the expensive version. Same goes for every product you and I buy every day. If everyone starts buying something else that's cheaper, the companies will try to figure out how to change the products they make so that people will buy them. Right now, we both know that the GT350 was too cheap from Ford. So lots of people including me paid more than MSRP for a GT350. I would argue that Mustang is priced quite well. It's a performance bargain - especially the base Mustang.

Big companies aren't our enemies. You need a big company with lots of resources to be able to develop and build complex and expensive things like cars. But you have the cause and effect backwards. Companies aren't "sticking it to the little guy". They are trying to make products that every little guy wants to buy. And by making great products, those companies benefit all of us. They especially benefit their employees. And it's a free relationship for the employees. IF there's something better out there, those people can quit at any time and go to work for another company. Companies need to attract and keep employees. And they do that by paying them well.

The middle class isn't dead. Most of us are in the middle class, by my way of thinking. But some people are greedy and think that their middle class life isn't good enough. Or they think just because they can't afford every single thing they want that they can't be in the middle class.

 

[piglet13]

Workers are free to work for any company, or to start their own business. And lots of people hop jobs over and over to get raises, different experience, etc. Corporations don't have to care about workers, just like workers don't have to care about the corporation they work for. However, if the corporation doesn't offer to pay the worker as much money as their competitors do, the workers will go work for another company. And the best workers will start their own competing companies and beat the corporation at its own game. There's no need for a union for workers to get a "fair" wage. Competition naturally takes care of that.

With no union, the best workers get paid a lot and the worst workers don't get paid much or they get fired. With a union, there's no motivation to work hard. If the employees don't work hard, the company produces fewer products. Then the company isn't as competitive and may end up going out of business.



Everyone in the world benefits from the great products that are produced by American businesses and American people. Companies can't sell products unless they are able to make a product that is better than the products made by the competition. Successful companies employ a lot of people and produce products that benefit lots of people. Making money is something that companies need to do in order to hire people to develop and make more products. Economics 101.

Ford darn will cut the cost of the Mustang if no one can afford the expensive version. Same goes for every product you and I buy every day. If everyone starts buying something else that's cheaper, the companies will try to figure out how to change the products they make so that people will buy them. Right now, we both know that the GT350 was too cheap from Ford. So lots of people including me paid more than MSRP for a GT350. I would argue that Mustang is priced quite well. It's a performance bargain - especially the base Mustang.

Big companies aren't our enemies. You need a big company with lots of resources to be able to develop and build complex and expensive things like cars. But you have the cause and effect backwards. Companies aren't "sticking it to the little guy". They are trying to make products that every little guy wants to buy. And by making great products, those companies benefit all of us. They especially benefit their employees. And it's a free relationship for the employees. IF there's something better out there, those people can quit at any time and go to work for another company. Companies need to attract and keep employees. And they do that by paying them well.

The middle class isn't dead. Most of us are in the middle class, by my way of thinking. But some people are greedy and think that their middle class life isn't good enough. Or they think just because they can't afford every single thing they want that they can't be in the middle class.

If you did your research, you'd realize that the lifestyle of the middle class has gone down significantly with the elimination of unions. The elimination of unions also forced Housewives to have to go to work. And now look at our kids being that they were raised by daycares and computer games. It's all about corporate greed.

 

[RichBrew]

No need to have ten people to run registers when you can have one or two watching cameras. I do not and will not use a self checkout.

I’ve never had a self checkout ignore me standing at the register so not could gossip with its coworkers. They also never have a snotty attitude, or drag their feet because they’re lazy or don’t want to be there. I generally prefer them.

 

[Bikeman315]

Hack, you are certainly entitled to your opinion and I respect that. Now, I would appreciate it if you read this.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/20/business/economy/amazon-warehouse-labor.html

Yes, there are greedy unions as there are greedy corporations. Enough blame to go around for both. But one of the main reasons for the organization of unions was to protect the workers. I cannot speak for any other company but my son-in-law worked at an Amazon warehouse and they treated the floor workers like animals. To be honest the managers were treated the same or worse. I wish it were different but Amazon is proof that unions are still needed in the 21st century.

Sorry for keeping this thread off topic but it is Labor Day.

 

[Danno]

I think we need to remember why Unions came to America. An over simplification:
Studying history and communism, (no I’m not a communist) i find that the idea was to get folks to covet others wealth. At the time under a king, there was a lower income class, the working man. Karl Marx while i would not say was the true founder of Communism is considered one of a pair that did so. Personal opinion of the man aside, he felt that wealth should be distributed evenly. Well not his wealth. His was acquired under some dubious methods, and the thought of actually having to work absolutely scared him to death.
His idea was to beat the lower class into submission. Said another way. If you did not buy it, he thought beating the crap out of you would make you do so. The unions job was to make you agree to become a communist. Marx thought that the unions would dramatically change America and that all working class Americans would buy unto communism.unfortunately for Marx was that the capitalist system in was indeed working. The working class were making money, paying bills and generally working their way up out of poverty.
This greatly disturbed the communist.
Is communism the unions goal today? Well each of us will have to answer that himself. What are some of the communist selling points? And is communism still alive today. To the latter, I’d say socialism is certainly alive, and is a lower form of communism. Coveting other peoples stuff, blaming others for our own lack of wealth, generally a feeling of oppression at the hands of some other persons, company or entity. All tactics to make us feel as if some force is holding us back. All tactics of communist and socialist organizations to make us feel as if we need another economic system.
Personally I’ve worked for several union organized companies. All had their problems. Frankly i never cared for them, nor that idea that payment for my services should be regulated by seniority, or some other nebulous parameter. What i know is that i have a certain amount of work and positive impact in production and wish to be paid accordingly. If the company does not wish to pay me, then I’m moving on.
One other thing that bothered me about the experiences i had with unions was job classification. While I'm sure this is a good idea, it seemed easily abused. Too many times i’d find myself at odds with union leaders. As a line operator dependent on material i was at the mercy of material handlers to feed stock to me. When the line went down as a result of material not at my station as required, I’d simply get the material myself. Without getting into a discussion of the why, I simply did not care for the attitude of the material handlers. Too my way of thinking, production equals getting paid. Everything else was a problem.
What others have never really bothered me. Here in the good ole US of A, we are blessed with a constitution. I as well as everyone else are free to make our own choices and if i don't like the compensation, we are free to seek income another way.
Heres what i know. Those countries where the governments or other regulating bodies try to make things “fair” for the working class produce goods and services that are either in great shortage, or something i would not want. For that natter wish on others.
Are unions good? Each of us has an opinion on that. Do we like Mustangs? Well yeah. Do we like 500’s? Oh yeah. We don't get these kind of toys in countries that limit innovation, markets, and opinions.

 

[ChuckXX]

I saw over on another site today that the UAW 862 voted by 99% to 1% to give the OK to "authorize a strike" if necessary. They didn't vote to strike but just voted to "authorize a strike" if necessary. The incredible majority of 99% did surprise me. We'll just have to wait and see what happens. Kinda frustrating when you are waiting for your dream car and to think that it could really be delayed substantially if it comes down to a strike.

 

[Bikeman315]

I saw over on another site today that the UAW 862 voted by 99% to 1% to give the OK to "authorize a strike" if necessary. They didn't vote to strike but just voted to "authorize a strike" if necessary. The incredible majority of 99% did surprise me. We'll just have to wait and see what happens. Kinda frustrating when you are waiting for your dream car and to think that it could really be delayed substantially if it comes down to a strike.

Looks like they will work with GM first. Based on how that goes they will move on to Ford & FCA.
https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/general-motors/2019/09/03/uaw-strike-gm/2086091001/

 

[Snoopy49]

That's good news, it looked like it was initially going in another direction.

"Privately, people close to contract negotiations said the union had been leaning toward negotiating with Ford first because the company is perceived as more friendly to workers. No one expected GM to get a pass, but going first is a totally different strategy."

 

[Bull Run]

If you did your research, you'd realize that the lifestyle of the middle class has gone down significantly with the elimination of unions. The elimination of unions also forced Housewives to have to go to work. And now look at our kids being that they were raised by daycares and computer games. It's all about corporate greed.

I'm not letting greed corporations off the hook but there are other factors in play. Here's a finding from a recent Charles Schwab’s annual Modern Wealth Survey:

"Well, it seems virtual covetousness has taken on a life of its own for the digital generation. According to the survey, overspending because of what they see on social media (in tandem with the ease with which it takes your cash) was the largest “bad” influence on how they managed their money. And the negative influence of social media on spending is only going to grow. In March, Instagram announced that it’s testing a shopping feature called Checkout that lets users buy things directly within the app, rather than being directed to a retailer’s website. So much for one-stop shopping. Now you won’t even have to stop."

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...ch-money-do-you-need-to-be-wealthy-in-america

I'm pretty sure most of us heard of the term "Keeping up with the Jones". Social media and online shopping is "Keeping up with the Jones" on steroids. The lifestyle of the middle class hasn't gone down, it actually went up. Compare the size of houses now vs in the past. How about all these gadgets? All financed with debt, which makes banks and corporations selling the latest "must haves" richer. How do you think companies like Apple, that doesn't anything that's considered essential for life or business, became one of the most valuable companies?

And how will the union address automation and job losses cause by it? Doesn't seem like the postal union was successful in banning e-mails, online bill pay, electronic document service, and other business that used to be conducted over the mail.

"Automation is more quickly adopted during economic downturns when companies look to slash labor costs. The Midwest is especially vulnerable to technological disruption because jobs there revolve heavily around manufacturing and agriculture. In Kokomo, Indiana, 55 percent of the work could be automated; in Washington, D.C., just 39 percent."

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/25/the...-risk-of-losing-their-jobs-to-automation.html

So as jobs are automated, it also increases the pool of unemployed and underemployed workers. So what incentive is there for corporations to give raises to low-skill workers when there are many others willing to work for less?

Remember Blockbuster Video? Those used to be everywhere when I was a little kid, but no more. Alternatives popped up that were much cheaper and more convenient, and consumers moved over to them. So why are we surprised that corporations are doing the same thing?

 

[Snoopy49]

I saw over on another site today that the UAW 862 voted by 99% to 1% to give the OK to "authorize a strike" if necessary. They didn't vote to strike but just voted to "authorize a strike" if necessary. The incredible majority of 99% did surprise me. We'll just have to wait and see what happens. Kinda frustrating when you are waiting for your dream car and to think that it could really be delayed substantially if it comes down to a strike.

You always vote to "authorize a strike", without the vote the Union has less power to negotiate. Things don't get real until they decide to strike.
At least they are going after GM first.

 

[Ninjak]

You always vote to "authorize a strike", without the vote the Union has less power to negotiate. Things don't get real until they decide to strike.
At least they are going after GM first.

This. It was voted, and given. Hopefully things get worked out, but it would seem they will hit GM then Ford, Fiat. But the vote was for all 3.

 

[Hack]

Sorry I'm bowing out of the off topic discussions in this thread. I apologize for my part in revving them up.

Anyone who wants to talk unions, etc. please post in the politics section and I will definitely reply there.

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