Confirmed: Mustang GT PP2 Overheats in 3 laps on track

[Baron95]

Well, the results of Car and Driver Lightning Lap 2018 are in, and it hasn't been kind to Ford.

Not only did the Corvette ZR1 demolish the three times more expensive Ford GT - 6 seconds faster at VIR, same day, same drivers....

https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/th...ternational-raceway.97684/page-7#post-2350669

... but....

The Mustang GT PP2 consistently overheated in as few as 3 laps, and continued to overhead even when cool down laps were thrown in between hot laps.

Here is the exact quote from Car and Driver:

"But with no differential cooler, the rear axle overheated every time we took the Mustang out, often in as few as three hot laps, and even with easy laps staggered between them."

So there you have, leaving out the coolers was, again, a major fail by Ford.

So now, what? Wait for Performance Pack 3?

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[cbrookre]

GT350? It always comes down to cost/benefit, but I can see that in a Performance Pack it might be considered wise to put them in. They need a Track Pack...

 

[DarthMalice]

Kudos to Chevy for making those coolers standard on the 2019 SS. The Mustang PP options should have this. I also appreciate how they provide more options that include automatics...now if only they would get the look right.

 

[saf1]

Well, the results of Car and Driver Lightning Lap 2018 are in, and it hasn't been kind to Ford.

Not only did the Corvette ZR1 demolish the three times more expensive Ford GT - 6 seconds faster at VIR, same day, same drivers....

Problem with this statement is that the GT will resale for over 1 million while the ZR does not. Money aside, and no dog in this fight, does it really matter? Most people buying either of these will never track them. And if they do I doubt at the skill level to push the envelope or lap times.

Edit: I would be more interested in the owners of PP2 packaged cars from the HPDE sub forum and their feedback.

 

[Baron95]

does it really matter?.

Of course it matters. When the GT350 overheats on track. Then the Ford GT pulls back power in May. Then the PP2 overheats, while all the other cars in the test do fine, it tells you that Ford does not know how to engineer performance cars that can be run hard.

Is that a reputation that Ford wants? No.

Will all the Ford GTs sell and hold their value/appreciate. Yes. But will that cause more people to buy Ford Performance vehicles with these headlines? I doubt it.

Edit: I would be more interested in the owners of PP2 packaged cars from the HPDE sub forum and their feedback.

Too many variables there. They will report on what happened to their car with their driving skills.

What C&D did is put their editors in all the 20 or so performance cars, and see how they did comparatively. And sadly, the Fords didn't do well.

The fact that C&D said that it overheated every time they took it out (meaning with all the different editors driving) is very very significant. Particularly at VIR, which is a track that you are at high speed with no differential load on the diff a lot of the time, providing ample opportunity for diff cooling.

 

[kz]

Problem with this statement is that the GT will resale for over 1 million while the ZR does not. Money aside, and no dog in this fight, does it really matter? Most people buying either of these will never track them. And if they do I doubt at the skill level to push the envelope or lap times.

Edit: I would be more interested in the owners of PP2 packaged cars from the HPDE sub forum and their feedback.

There is zero problem with that statement - there is nothing about resale price in it - which comes from GT's exclusivity - it is only (statement is) about performance. Truth is Chevy consistently has been making superb track cars that has proven its performance on the track while Ford slaps wider / sticker tires and calls it good.

Two things - Chevy had a major screw-up with C7Z and Ford does what it does because it can - sells way more than Chevy and since it's a corporation which goal is making money, why the hell would it invest in development of something better...

 

[saf1]

Of course it matters. When the GT350 overheats on track. Then the Ford GT pulls back power in May. Then the PP2 overheats, while all the other cars in the test do fine, it tells you that Ford does not know how to engineer performance cars that can be run hard.

Is that a reputation that Ford wants? No.

Will all the Ford GTs sell and hold their value/appreciate. Yes. But will that cause more people to buy Ford Performance vehicles with these headlines? I doubt it.

I was really only talking about the ZR1 and GT. I personally don't get caught up in all of the lower abdominal area waving that goes on with lap times.

Too many variables there. They will report on what happened to their car with their driving skills.

I'm not looking for variables - I am looking for actual people, who are track oriented, who bought the PP2 package, and track their car. There are not too many variables. They either take it to an event, over heat, or not. No different than what people do with any other car.

I mean I've wasted several hours watching the videos in the HPDE sub forum and I hear them hitting the rev limiters on the 350's not pulling over the side of the track over heating. I'm not saying, or disagreeing with you that there are not issues with earlier models (same with GM btw). I was just more curious what people are experience is all.

Not looking to argue - just how I see it. Trust me, I own a '15 PP and always intended to take it on a track. I'm telling you now that the car has is, stock, is more than my skill level. And I have a box of parts from Steeda, Ford, and BMR, stacked on my shelf to tweak it a bit better. But sadly work/travel continues to get in my way. So I can only partake in the videos you kind lads and lasses share

 

[saf1]

There is zero problem with that statement - there is nothing about resale price in it - which comes from GT's exclusivity - it is only (statement is) about performance. Truth is Chevy consistently has been making superb track cars that has proven its performance on the track while Ford slaps wider / sticker tires and calls it good.

Two things - Chevy had a major screw-up with C7Z and Ford does what it does because it can - sells way more than Chevy and since it's a corporation which goal is making money, why the hell would it invest in development of something better...

Let me ask you a question - how many people will cancel their order for a Ford GT over that article? I'll answer it for you, zero. Furthermore, 90% of the owners of said GT won't even track it. They are in for collecting and resale or to look cool and be young. I'm not saying you are right or wrong, just don't find any value in the article based on the consumer.

Edit: I was going to say I disagree with the stickier tier comment but I re-read what you wrote and get your point. It was in reference to the PP2 pack (although doesn't that also include the mag ride shocks?).

 

[kz]

Let me ask you a question - how many people will cancel their order for a Ford GT over that article? I'll answer it for you, zero. Furthermore, 90% of the owners of said GT won't even track it. They are in for collecting and resale or to look cool and be young. I'm not saying you are right or wrong, just don't find any value in the article based on the consumer.

Edit: I was going to say I disagree with the stickier tier comment but I re-read what you wrote and get your point. It was in reference to the PP2 pack (although doesn't that also include the mag ride shocks?).

Yeah, but for us mere mortals it's bench racing that matters ;-)

Yes, I talked about PP2. Magneride is available on pretty much any Mustang now - PP1 and I think even a regular GT.

 

[EcoVert]

Ford has stated that the PP2 Mustang is not a track car.

 

[Kep4]

If Ford did add a diff cooler option for $1K + then we could bitch about that being too expensive and the car shouldn't need it. Ironically, I would have checked that option box.

Yes, for the minimal quantity of Mustangs that get 'tracked' they need a diff cooler. Anybody care to chime in on the low percentage of cars that get 'tracked'? The great majority of Mustang buyers will never, ever have their car on a track and Mustang beats the crap out of Camaro in sales. Therefore, you get this:

Yeah, but for us mere mortals it's bench racing that matters ;-)

 

[Baron95]

If Ford did add a diff cooler option for $1K + then we could bitch about that being too expensive and the car shouldn't need it.

I have never ever heard anyone complain that the SS1LE should not have the diff cooler (or any other of its 12 heat exchangers for that matter).

In fact, I have never heard that said of any track/performance package ever. "I wish my track/performance pack didn't have xyz cooler".

This day an age with all the computer modeling and experience (including Ford's own experience) there is no reason for track/performance package cars to overheat on track anymore. The manufacturers KNOW that magazines will test cars on track. The fact that they care so little about their reputation to see in print that their cars overheat shows a complete disregard for engineering excellence.

 

[Baron95]

Anybody care to chime in on the low percentage of cars that get 'tracked'? :

That is an irrelevant question.

The question is what percentage of PP2 buyers will track at least once. Hint #1: Porsche says that 85% - eighty five percent - of the buyers of GT3 cars track them. Hint #2: If you buy a car with the highest performance packaged, Cup 2 Tires and a lower stiffer suspension, and don't intend to track it you are either a poser or clueless, given that for street use the compromises are horrible compared to PP1 or standard GT.

 

[93tankus]

PP2 owner here who actually tracks their car.

It’s a mixed bag, really. But for me, the positives outweigh the negatives. Yes, it’s a tad annoying that it didn’t originally come with a diff cooler. But, at the end of the day, i’m trying different ideas and will eventually purchase a cooler. Not the end of the world! I mean, part of the fun for me in tracking a car is coming up with ideas for better cooling, braking, etc.

The positives, like I said, outweigh the lack of diff cooler for me personally. It’s an absolute BLAST to hoon around the track! The handling, the brakes, the noise....lord that noise! And most importantly, I get excited just looking at it when it’s sits in the garage!

 

[JimsFury]

I have never ever heard anyone complain that the SS1LE should not have the diff cooler (or any other of its 12 heat exchangers for that matter).

In fact, I have never heard that said of any track/performance package ever. "I wish my track/performance pack didn't have xyz cooler".

This day an age with all the computer modeling and experience (including Ford's own experience) there is no reason for track/performance package cars to overheat on track anymore. The manufacturers KNOW that magazines will test cars on track. The fact that they care so little about their reputation to see in print that their cars overheat shows a complete disregard for engineering excellence.

I think you need to go buy a Chevy.

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