Ford GT350 vs BMW M2

[papashango3]

Surprised to hear the vw and mini weren't in the shop often. The audi techs near me are constantly pulling motors on the cars that come in, even the Vws. I really WANT to like Vw. Their reliability has gone down hill in the past 25 years. It seems the trend with all German made cars. Ive never heard good things about mini from their techs. We don't have a mini dealer on site here Only Audi, Bmw, Mercedes, Porsche, Jaguar, rover, infiniti and lexus. We sell the weirdest selection of new cars.

How much do service managers make vs mechanics? I assume less?

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[papashango3]

If i could also ask your opinion on porsche labor rates, reliability, and cost of service/repairs versus other manufactures? My impression is that they are very reliable but when you do have to take it in for whatever reason it will be much more expensive vs others. Accurate?

 

[blkandgud]

Agreed, I can't tell you on all the issues I had with my Mustangs. Not to mention Fords lack or lack of will to repair them. Its what pushed me into BMW's in the first place. Granted the longest I owned was my 2004 E46 M3 for just over 4 years and it was flawless. I have owned now 8 BMWs since 2001 and the only one that had an issue was the 2005 X3 which had to have a transfer case replaced under warranty...thats it.

Dave

This argument bores me. You have the same argument for Bimmers. Most people I know who have had them constantly had them in the shop for silly, stupid things and often left them stranded on the road.

Meanwhile, all of the Ford's I've had of the mid 90s and 2000s all still work perfectly fine to this day.

I do agree that BMW's best days, styling and driving was, was in the 90s and early 2000's. Sorry, but the new Bimmers are just trash for what you pay for them. They're nice, but no way in hell would I pay almost 60K for an M2 when so many better cars are out there.

 

[Shakooza]

I'm wondering how many of us are actually going to enjoy an M2 or a GT350 as a DD...When I test drive both cars Im going to do my best to get past the performance and think about livability. I've had cars that I've had to retire to the garage as a weekend car because they just got to be too much for a daily driver. In my personal opinion the M235 is still the best sporty DD on the market at this time despite its high cost and lack of reliability.


There is something that evokes emotion because of the size of the M235, the engine and the dynamics. One could argue that there are things that need to be specifically improved by the M2 but the flaws are what inspires the car to feel fast. If the M2 fixes the flaws and it requires me to go 100mph to achieve the feel of the M235 then what have I gained? In comparisson the Miata has many flaws but some of its flaws are what make it a riot. A little body roll makes you feel you are driving the crap out of it. Im just as guilty as everyone else as wanting the top dog. The reality is that I will track the car a couple of times a year and are the trade offs in livability worth the M2 or the GT350? Who knows at this point...

The M235 is one of the most fun I've had in a car and that kind of soul seems lost with the Camaro and Mustang as their size and weight have ballooned. I KNOW the Mustang GT PP has better performance in almost every aspect than an M235. The Mustangs numbers are clearly superior to the M235i. Even when I push the Mustang to my limits or the cars limits its never painted a smile across my face like the M235 has. The M235 feels fast to me at low speeds and to get that feeling I have to be deep in the throttle and in major ticket territory to get a hint of that in a Mustang. The Mustang GT PP is so refined its ridiculous and thats a good thing and a bad thing. Is the feeling of exhilaration worth going into the shop and having issues a few times a year...I will answer that after I test drive the GT350. I do know that every time Ive look at a car over the last year I've bench marked it against an M235.

 

[papashango3]

Are you saying the m235 specifically is unreliable or are you just going off of BMW reputation

 

[Shakooza]

Are you saying the m235 specifically is unreliable or are you just going off of BMW reputation

My comments were nothing but a generalization for reliability....so far the guys with the 235s have had good luck. We won't know for a couple of years, however.

 

[aspensilver]

Agreed, I can't tell you on all the issues I had with my Mustangs. Not to mention Fords lack or lack of will to repair them. Its what pushed me into BMW's in the first place. Granted the longest I owned was my 2004 E46 M3 for just over 4 years and it was flawless. I have owned now 8 BMWs since 2001 and the only one that had an issue was the 2005 X3 which had to have a transfer case replaced under warranty...thats it.

Well, I think we all have hit and misses with different companies, stat sample size is really hard for one person to manage with their car experiences. We just turned in a 2013 fusion lease, 2yrs 35,600 miles and absolutely nothing malfunctioned. One piece of trim popped out and I was able to push it back in. But it's toyish build quality is a definite turn off.

For me it's about the build quality, steering feel, size, and engine as an overall package that makes BMW a winner for me. The reliability is dubious, IMO. BMWs do fine up to around 60,000, then it gets sketchier, then once the car is 90,000 or more the repair list is laundry-like if you like keeping it in great shape. I bet you haven't owned a BMW at 90K or greater for a long time?

There is something that evokes emotion because of the size of the M235, the engine and the dynamics. One could argue that there are things that need to be specifically improved by the M2 but the flaws are what inspires the car to feel fast.

I really agree, especially with the size of the car. My heart dropped when I found the S550 was WIDER than my 2013 Fusion. This is a car where there is at least 7 inches between my arm and the door's arm rest. This is opposite of sporty for a DD. It is isolating, and you feel like you drive the boat that can't fit in parking spaces and nimbley, can't go around cars easily in traffic, etc.

The M235 is one of the most fun I've had in a car and that kind of soul seems lost with the Camaro and Mustang as their size and weight have ballooned. I KNOW the Mustang GT PP has better performance in almost every aspect than an M235. The Mustangs numbers are clearly superior to the M235i. Even when I push the Mustang to my limits or the cars limits its never painted a smile across my face like the M235 has. The M235 feels fast to me at low speeds and to get that feeling I have to be deep in the throttle and in major ticket territory to get a hint of that in a Mustang. The Mustang GT PP is so refined its ridiculous and thats a good thing and a bad thing. Is the feeling of exhilaration worth going into the shop and having issues a few times a year...I will answer that after I test drive the GT350. I do know that every time Ive look at a car over the last year I've bench marked it against an M235.

Yup. The Mustang is the better car for pure performance, but I think the M235 delivers more smiles. Plus, if you are strictly talking about DD duties, none of us are going all out except for a brief stints on backroads. At speeds closer to legal, I need something to deliver a thrill. I think I've finally gotten over wanting a TON of HP as a top priority. Vehicle size/dimensions/steering feel now are my #1 concern. Of course, I don't think I could stand less than like 220 horses in most cars except the older M-coupes.

Still though, I think the M235 is missing some of the trademark BMW steering feel. I feel more inclined towards a 2012/2013 135IS or 1M than 2 series for that reason.

 

[Dave2013M3]

For me it's about the build quality, steering feel, size, and engine as an overall package that makes BMW a winner for me. The reliability is dubious, IMO. BMWs do fine up to around 60,000, then it gets sketchier, then once the car is 90,000 or more the repair list is laundry-like if you like keeping it in great shape. I bet you haven't owned a BMW at 90K or greater for a long time?

I had a 90 328i and it had over 200k miles on her...yea it needed a water pump, alternator and along with some other items but not that bad.

Dave

 

[ihc95]

M2 leaked http://www.2addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1183571

 

[Dave2013M3]

M2 leaked http://www.2addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1183571

Also MSRP got released...starting at $51k.

Dave

 

[BmacIL]

Well, I think we all have hit and misses with different companies, stat sample size is really hard for one person to manage with their car experiences. We just turned in a 2013 fusion lease, 2yrs 35,600 miles and absolutely nothing malfunctioned. One piece of trim popped out and I was able to push it back in. But it's toyish build quality is a definite turn off.

For me it's about the build quality, steering feel, size, and engine as an overall package that makes BMW a winner for me. The reliability is dubious, IMO. BMWs do fine up to around 60,000, then it gets sketchier, then once the car is 90,000 or more the repair list is laundry-like if you like keeping it in great shape. I bet you haven't owned a BMW at 90K or greater for a long time?



I really agree, especially with the size of the car. My heart dropped when I found the S550 was WIDER than my 2013 Fusion. This is a car where there is at least 7 inches between my arm and the door's arm rest. This is opposite of sporty for a DD. It is isolating, and you feel like you drive the boat that can't fit in parking spaces and nimbley, can't go around cars easily in traffic, etc.




Yup. The Mustang is the better car for pure performance, but I think the M235 delivers more smiles. Plus, if you are strictly talking about DD duties, none of us are going all out except for a brief stints on backroads. At speeds closer to legal, I need something to deliver a thrill. I think I've finally gotten over wanting a TON of HP as a top priority. Vehicle size/dimensions/steering feel now are my #1 concern. Of course, I don't think I could stand less than like 220 horses in most cars except the older M-coupes.

Still though, I think the M235 is missing some of the trademark BMW steering feel. I feel more inclined towards a 2012/2013 135IS or 1M than 2 series for that reason.

The GT350 makes both feel quite tame. I've never driven anything more exciting than it.

 

[MadCow]

All that german crap is junk. They make things unnecessarily complex so it seems as though the extra money is worth it. They come out with some new photon particle beam ray headlight that cost $5000 and that sh*t's problems got problems of their own. But the premium car market is what all the manufacturers wants a part of. The profit margins are considerably higher.

 

[rgingo]

All that german crap is junk. They make things unnecessarily complex so it seems as though the extra money is worth it. They come out with some new photon particle beam ray headlight that cost $5000 and that sh*t's problems got problems of their own. But the premium car market is what all the manufacturers wants a part of. The profit margins are considerably higher.

Agree. The Europeans love the up-market marketing (better profit margins) for their sport coupes and anything that is not an ecobox. Somewhat smaller cars in European cities also makes sense (tighter/narrower roads). Smaller, more efficient engines (like DI turbos) deliver the power without the gas consumption (gas really high in Europe). However, for the U.S., Canada, Australia, etc....... Mustangs are a good fit IMHO. Also check the specs for premium sport coupes like the Astin Martin or Jaguar and you will also find low and wide profiles in not-so-small cars. (not even going to touch the supercar class). As for BMWs.... they were better engineered 10 years ago than they are today (cost-cutting?).

 

[ForTehNguyen]

rather get GT350 obviously. Both of these cars will have ADM for a while

 

[bahasad]

Love it. Would buy it over the GT350 and keep the options to a minimum. The N55 motor has been reliable and has had very few issues.

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