Ford GT350 vs BMW M2

[1mic]

I'm not too familiar with the BMW's that have FI, how do they do on the track?

This is priced about $5k over a base GT350 ($55k M2). I didn't read this entire thread, but If I do decide to get a GT350 it would have the track pack. Question is, does the M2 have oil/transmission/rear diff coolers? Most likely not, if it did, this is BMW we are talking about here. That would probably be a $10k upgrade.

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[w3rkn]

I'm not too familiar with the BMW's that have FI, how do they do on the track?

This is priced about $5k over a base GT350 ($55k M2). I didn't read this entire thread, but If I do decide to get a GT350 it would have the track pack. Question is, does the M2 have oil/transmission/rear diff coolers? Most likely not, if it did, this is BMW we are talking about here. That would probably be a $10k upgrade.

No, the M2 will probably be $49k starting. ($55k moderately equipped)

BMW M-Cars come from a different division of BMW. And yes they have such cooling. Read here a little brief, on the bigger brother M4.

 

[1mic]

No, the M2 will probably be $49k starting. ($55k moderately equipped)

BMW M-Cars come from a different division of BMW. And yes they have such cooling. Read here a little brief, on the bigger brother M4.

No way will it be 49k, the m235i starts at $45.6k, so basically 4k more and someone can buy an m2? Sorry, that aint happening.

 

[arsenalrocks]

my e92 m3 comes with engine oil, tranny oil and diff coolers standard

for a track car those should be standard anyways always, don't get why Ford would make them optional, maybe they can claim a lower msrp.

but then they should make them available as a package, not making us choose track vs. tech

I'm not too familiar with the BMW's that have FI, how do they do on the track?

This is priced about $5k over a base GT350 ($55k M2). I didn't read this entire thread, but If I do decide to get a GT350 it would have the track pack. Question is, does the M2 have oil/transmission/rear diff coolers? Most likely not, if it did, this is BMW we are talking about here. That would probably be a $10k upgrade.

 

[w3rkn]

No way will it be 49k, the m235i starts at $45.6k, so basically 4k more and someone can buy an m2? Sorry, that aint happening.

The M235i was rumored to be a limited run, mentioned by Scott26 in some older posts.

The 1M cost less than my car (135is). The 235i still needs a $2,700 lsd to handle properly and has not differentiated itself from the pack enough. And in my opinion priced too high, for what you get.

The M2 is a track focused M car, that at its core doesn't need NAV, rear camera, etc.

Expect a sub $50k starting price.

 

[Dave2013M3]

The M235i was rumored to be a limited run, mentioned by Scott26 in some older posts.

The 1M cost less than my car (135is). The 235i still needs a $2,700 lsd to handle properly and has not differentiated itself from the pack enough. And in my opinion priced too high, for what you get.

The M2 is a track focused M car, that at its core doesn't need NAV, rear camera, etc.

Expect a sub $50k starting price.

The only bummer that a lot of people in the BMW community feel regarding the M2 is the use of the modified version of a N55 not a detuned S55 M3/4 engine.

I think it will be a very interesting car.

Dave

 

[Dave2013M3]

No way will it be 49k, the m235i starts at $45.6k, so basically 4k more and someone can buy an m2? Sorry, that aint happening.

You have to keep in mind that they can't price it to close to a stripped M3/4. Also the M235i starts at $44.1K, the AWD version starts at $45.6K.

Dave

 

[w3rkn]

The only bummer that a lot of people in the BMW community feel regarding the M2 is the use of the modified version of a N55 not a detuned S55 M3/4 engine.

I think it will be a very interesting car.

Dave

Aye.

I drive a N55 PPK2. It needs a lot of work to be in a M-Car. More horsepower is not going to fix this engines faults. It needs extra special attention to throttle response. Extremely hard to modulate this engine.

I can hold the throttle a given position, but BMW can't hold the needle at the same spot. It rides all over the place, as I have shown many people.

There is NO DIRECT INPUT from me, which takes away from my over all driving pleasure. Everything is managed by BMW, they even included a clutch delay valve (dERP). I don't feel connected to the car, just to the road.

Then of coarse there is the turbo lag...




One of the reason I am so in love with the GT350, because that throttle responds and attenuates to the slightest nuance of your foot. That engine is sublime.. almost reads your mind.


I really hope BMW M-Division sorts out their problems and invest into making track-able cars again. I do think the delay in the M2 is because BMW is embarrassed by their product stack, against other contenders.

They simply can't compete and need techy doodaads and heavy marketing to sell their performance cars not that bean counters control it.

I think BMW lost it's way when they became too focused on times and not enough with spirited driving. DCT is how BMW claims victory.. but their cars are starting to bore me.

I hope this M2 delivers, I want more of my car.



Then, there is the rumor I just heard this past week at the cruise. That the M2 was delayed because a few industrious Germans set up equipment around few of the corners at the Nurb, and noticed the RS being quicker than the M2 mules.

I can imaging how ///M felt about that.

 

[ihc95]

Aye.

I drive a N55 PPK2. It needs a lot of work to be in a M-Car. More horsepower is not going to fix this engines faults. It needs extra special attention to throttle response. Extremely hard to modulate this engine.

I can hold the throttle a given position, but BMW can't hold the needle at the same spot. It rides all over the place, as I have shown many people.

There is NO DIRECT INPUT from me, which takes away from my over all driving pleasure. Everything is managed by BMW, they even included a clutch delay valve (dERP). I don't feel connected to the car, just to the road.

Then of coarse there is the turbo lag...




One of the reason I am so in love with the GT350, because that throttle responds and attenuates to the slightest nuance of your foot. That engine is sublime.. almost reads your mind.


I really hope BMW M-Division sorts out their problems and invest into making track-able cars again. I do think the delay in the M2 is because BMW is embarrassed by their product stack, against other contenders.

They simply can't compete and need techy doodaads and heavy marketing to sell their performance cars not that bean counters control it.

I think BMW lost it's way when they became too focused on times and not enough with spirited driving. DCT is how BMW claims victory.. but their cars are starting to bore me.

I hope this M2 delivers, I want more of my car.



Then, there is the rumor I just heard this past week at the cruise. That the M2 was delayed because a few industrious Germans set up equipment around few of the corners at the Nurb, and noticed the RS being quicker than the M2 mules.

I can imaging how ///M felt about that.

You don't think BMW makes anything trackable? The new M3/4 is the most track capable car BMW has ever made (not including CSL or GTS cars). Look at the M3 forums to see how that car is on the track. It's a great track car. The S55 is also very adjustable, even if the power can seem a bit overwhelming.

I'm not too excited for the M2. The size is very appealing but the N55 definitely isn't. Hopefully it has a decent amount of S55 hardware. It's interesting to hear your comments about the N55 driveability. I have none of those complaints about my tuned N54. Of course it feels more "turbo'd" because mine is tuned, but stock it felt just like a small displacement NA V8.

 

[aspensilver]

Because it matters. Only smart people will ditch the car before its out of warranty. Most bmw shoppers aren't educated, the ones that are, they're just stupid. The true smart people wont buy bmws. Doesn't matter if the car is out yet or not, anything bmw makes is unreliable. A lot of people care about reliability and don't know bmws are built this way. As long as bmws are talked about around here, ill continue to post what shitboxes they are. :cheers:

It's kinda funny, if you like wrenching, owning a BMW is not that bad. The labor costs are what suck owning a used BMW, tech's around here all want $120+ an hour for simple jobs like valve cover gaskets.

To me my '97 540I E39 is better than any Mustang except the new S550 or possibly a 13-14 GT. I really like the way it handles, feels, and transmits information through the wheel to the driver. Fords feel numb in comparison, although so do the new BMW.

Personally I think all the 80s, 90s, most 2000s mustangs are all shitboxes I would never want to own. Slow, ugly, terrible interior.

A lot of BMW guys have figured out long-term reliability solutions. E.g. the cooling system woes can be greatly reduced if you know what you are doing. But I agree, they are unreliable. One of the biggest problems people see so much unreliability is that they will refresh one part of the cooling system but not the other. Got to do it all every 90K and then the car doesn't break down. Still have to deal with window regulators crapping out and occasional misfires, but not so bad. Sure was a baptism by fire though, I'll say that.

But I'd much rather own an 'unreliable' BMW, than any of the Mustang abortions I mentioned above. I don't care if they are reliable, I like driving for enjoyment.

 

[w3rkn]

You don't think BMW makes anything trackable? The new M3/4 is the most track capable car BMW has ever made (not including CSL or GTS cars). Look at the M3 forums to see how that car is on the track. It's a great track car. The S55 is also very adjustable, even if the power can seem a bit overwhelming.

I'm not too excited for the M2. The size is very appealing but the N55 definitely isn't. Hopefully it has a decent amount of S55 hardware. It's interesting to hear your comments about the N55 driveability. I have none of those complaints about my tuned N54. Of course it feels more "turbo'd" because mine is tuned, but stock it felt just like a small displacement NA V8.

I do not see BMW racing(competing) their new stuff & constantly falling back on their past efforts.


The thing that excites me most about the M2 is it's proper size. I am not a fan of ANY of the spy photos or photoshops because the car looks lame. It's looks don't stir emotion, (neither does my car its rather plain/ugly) but the premise/underpinnings is what counts for me... so i won't let that deter me too much.

I am more curious on what BMW M has done to the N55. As it stand now, the M2 is nothing more than a glorified M235i and most are just waiting on the whitepapers of what //M has done to this engine. Because lets face it, the engine is what you are buying, not M stickers on a M235i.

The delay of the M2 is good for everyone and I hope BMW nails it. I just have my doubts, listening to Scott26's marketing speak as of late.

$48K is the perfect starting price for a weekend track car/clubsport. No reason for an extra 20k of lux and frill of a M3/4. None!



BTW, the N54 has way more lag than a N55. The fun with the N54 is that it's ECU is not locked up. Put all forged internals in a N55 and unlock it and you have much more power (across the board) than the N54.

Will be fun to compare the S55 and the N55 O.

 

[Impulsed7]

Am I the only one hoping that the M2 was going to have a turbo 4? I mean a seriously hopped up turbo 4, but still a super lightweight E30 M3 modernized would have been killer. Its a shame I didn't have 50K to spend, my budget maxed at 35 or so, so I ended up in the ford. My problem is, if my budget had been 50K (ie, guaranteed job in December?) I probably would have ended up in the 350 instead of the M2. Now I have to stop wearing half of my t-shirts cause they are all BMW

 

[aspensilver]

The M235i was rumored to be a limited run, mentioned by Scott26 in some older posts.

Scott26 is wrong so often I never believe anything he says

 

[Impulsed7]

M235i is just what they call the 235. M stands for marketing now.

 

[Dave2013M3]

It's kinda funny, if you like wrenching, owning a BMW is not that bad. The labor costs are what suck owning a used BMW, tech's around here all want $120+ an hour for simple jobs like valve cover gaskets.

To me my '97 540I E39 is better than any Mustang except the new S550 or possibly a 13-14 GT. I really like the way it handles, feels, and transmits information through the wheel to the driver. Fords feel numb in comparison, although so do the new BMW.

Personally I think all the 80s, 90s, most 2000s mustangs are all shitboxes I would never want to own. Slow, ugly, terrible interior.

A lot of BMW guys have figured out long-term reliability solutions. E.g. the cooling system woes can be greatly reduced if you know what you are doing. But I agree, they are unreliable. One of the biggest problems people see so much unreliability is that they will refresh one part of the cooling system but not the other. Got to do it all every 90K and then the car doesn't break down. Still have to deal with window regulators crapping out and occasional misfires, but not so bad. Sure was a baptism by fire though, I'll say that.

But I'd much rather own an 'unreliable' BMW, than any of the Mustang abortions I mentioned above. I don't care if they are reliable, I like driving for enjoyment.

Agreed, I can't tell you on all the issues I had with my Mustangs. Not to mention Fords lack or lack of will to repair them. Its what pushed me into BMW's in the first place. Granted the longest I owned was my 2004 E46 M3 for just over 4 years and it was flawless. I have owned now 8 BMWs since 2001 and the only one that had an issue was the 2005 X3 which had to have a transfer case replaced under warranty...thats it.

Dave

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