GT350 vs. Z/28

[Sturmler]

Since you like to speculate on non-existent cars, wonder if we can get your thoughts on the 2022 all-electric AWD Corvette for $22,000 vs. the 2023 Pagani quad-turbo 1.5L Unikoo for $1.5mil.

These are guesses for the non existing cars. Guesses that are quite popular.

Again, as far as info is leaked on the internet, for the existing cars, looks like it pretty much comes in the said set up.

Info from Laguna Seca seem to put GT350 behing current Z28 and GT350R better than Z28.

Maybe info is wrong. Doesn't seem crazy though.

Re-read my post, I never said it was fact. Sorry if I wasn't clear enough (english isn't my mother tongue)

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[Anthony 05 GT]

The LS3 is very competitive with the Coyote. Almost equal with bolt on potential going to the Coyote. Impressive considering it appeared in like 2008. The LT1 seems to be significantly up in power compared to the Coyote for now but I'm sure that Ford has something up their sleeves(DI) to even the score. I don't think they need to give up on the pushrod V8 just yet. Their engines are not what is holding their cars back- it's usually the car they surround the engine with.

I guess my main point is the 8250 redline on the voodoo is such an advantage on the track. Off the track, just considering stock vehicles it seems pushrod engines need about 1 additional liter to make the same HP as the latest DOHC Ford offerings. Granted, the cams and additional displacement on the pushrod motors do have a torque advantage. I'd just like to see GM throw more at Ford to keep them all on their best game.

 

[Sturmler]

Riiiiiiight. You just stumble across the site via Google, yet come across as a GM/Camaro lover. Nice try though.

I've never thought talking with people who agree with you 100% was really interesting.

Maybe you like that. Cheers!

If you want to hate, well, you can hate. I can't help you with that.

Fanboyism is, anyway, pretty lame. On both side ... I don't really get how people can love everything a brand does just because it is done by this particular brand ...

I'm not afraid to say that the Aveo is prolly one of the worst modern cars I've ever driven ... and even that 90' Camaros were ugly as Hell

 

[Sturmler]

Sturmler

Can you give us an example where anyone expressed a "level of violence"? How does one do that? I think you're trying to use a lot of words and phrases just to sound intelligent, but it's coming off as disingenuous and desperate.

Really a funny image.

Originally Posted by garagelogic View Post
Anybody else notice how the conversation over on Camaro5/6 has changed back to a drag race environment? Some idiots over there

You right, calling people "idiots" just because you disagree shows a lot of respect and peaceful mind.

Seriously ... why so much hate for just cars????

Cars (current camaro / current mustang) you seem to not even actually own!! (2000/1965 ... i don't see any current mustang ... maybe your forum info isn't right thoug)

That's just crazy ...

I don't want to go into a fight with you or anyone else ... but just take few minutes to read the posts, to think about the level of verbal violence, of hate towards people not spreading mustang godspell...

Seriously, I've been around for like 3 days, I've been called a liar by some random member, you basically call me stupid ...

Just think about this forum being a real life discussion ... these behaviors wouldn't happen because you'd be afraid you might get a good punch in your face from the guy you're insulting ...

I wouldn't punch you though, coz actually, insults cover in shame the guy wording them, not the guy receiving them.

 

[Simon]

I'd say also that maybe Chevys advertising of the Z28 was too agressive.

It was marketed like a track beast, barely street legal with no AC and blah and blah...

I'm sorry, but that just made me laugh :lol: . If according to Chevy the Z/28 is barely street legal, what would they call an Edo Competition modified Ferrari FXX ( http://www.motorauthority.com/news/...n-modifies-the-ferrari-fxx-to-be-street-legal ), a car that has been modified to be actually street legal? I guess that would be way too much to handle for their advertising people. Even the recent Lamborghini Veneno, that's what you call barely street legal, not a 20k Camaro with a V8 and A/C Delete with few other tweaks. Don't get me wrong, I am just talking about their marketing strategy which is way off. It should have been advertised as a more extreme version of an SS, not a "barely street legal" car which it is far from. But then again, the car that I drive now (Buick Century) has broken A/C, so I guess it's barely street legal .

 

[Erik427]

Maybe, but honestly I see that happening with Ford before Chevy. Ford is investing heavily in the turbo charged six cylinders, even on flag ships such as the new Raptor and Ford GT. Meanwhile Chevy is trying to stay with V8's, this is shown with their trucks and flagship Corvette Z06. Cadillac's flagship is keeping the V8 as well in the CTS-V. Now the ATS-V on the other hand is using the TT V6, but that's really it.

GM already has all the parts and pieces in production with the Caddy. This is a easy do for GM.

 

[garagelogic]

Sturmler/amerhash28, in addition to Stuart Smalley, you also remind me of this guy:

 

[Mr Monte]

GM already has all the parts and pieces in production with the Caddy. This is a easy do for GM.

GM should offer the TT V6 in the new Camaro. The new ZL1 or whatever it will be called should be a TT V8 but it sounds like an LT4 Camaro is coming. GM is probably going to wait until Ford releases the "GT500" with a TT V8 1st before going down that path.

 

[madweazl]

GM should offer the TT V6 in the new Camaro. The new ZL1 or whatever it will be called should be a TT V8 but it sounds like an LT4 Camaro is coming. GM is probably going to wait until Ford releases the "GT500" with a TT V8 1st before going down that path.

The likelihood of either company releasing a twin turbo anything is slim to none. The Camaro will always live in the shadows of the 'vette (and the chances of it getting twins are slime to none).

 

[Trackaholic]

The LS7 is confirmed to be dead in the water. GM is on record saying that they tried to make an updated LS7 (LT7?) for the C7 Z06 however they couldn't meet CAFE standards at the power levels that they wanted. It was then that they invested into the LT4. From a street and drag perspective the LT4 is a great engine. However in my opinion the LT4 is not a good choice for someone doing serious track duty. I've seen way too many posts from customers and auto mags about the LT4 over heating as essentially going into a limp mode. MotorTrend over heated their Z06 on the highway in sub 90 degree weather claiming they were cruising at 70-80. There is no reason for that to happen. The C7 Z06/Z07 has so much potential and we've seen some laps already and the times are there. Unfortunately they're only there for a few laps and then they start to fall off.

Right now the only performance engines Chevy has to offer are the LT1 & LT4 and I fear that with the 6th gen they are going to try to merge the Z/28 & ZL1 much like they did with the C7 Z06. I really hope this isn't the case but I see this as the most likely route. It's possible they may hop up the LT1 into an LT6 (or some other name), I can see them able to get another ~50 horsepower out of it hitting 500 engine hp. Like you mentioned the low end grunt of the LT1 pretty much matches the out going LS7, so a hopped up LT1 would be sufficient.

Yeah, I remember GM saying they couldn't reach their desired power output with a naturally aspirated engine while meeting emissions. The big question there is, what were their power output targets?

Since it seems like they were trying to combine the Z06 and ZR1, they needed to shoot for a much higher target than the LS7 could provide. It makes me wonder if they could have hit a more modest target, like 520 or 530 HP. Maybe not.

The main reason GM needs to get onto DOHC, is so they can better control the valve events and make an emissions compliant, high HP, naturally aspirated engine. Hard to believe we've reached a point where 460 HP isn't enough, but here we are.

-T

 

[Anthony 05 GT]

The thought of such a long valvetrain like a pushrod motor has seems so antiquated. If GM had DOHC and independently adjustable cam timing like Ford V8 engines do on a big cube motor we would all benefit in the short run.

 

[Simon]

GM should offer the TT V6 in the new Camaro. The new ZL1 or whatever it will be called should be a TT V8 but it sounds like an LT4 Camaro is coming. GM is probably going to wait until Ford releases the "GT500" with a TT V8 1st before going down that path.

Which is why Ford should not rush with the GT500 and see what Chevy comes up with first (which is possible, when looking at the fact that GT350 production just started and Chevy will probably make another Z/28 or whatever it will be called about 2 years into new gen production I'm guessing, if not earlier whereas the GT500 if it comes it's likely going to be in 3 or so years), just like they did with the GT350 (whether intentional or not), this way it looks like that they easily outperformed the Z/28 both in price and on the asphalt. A TT V8 in a GT500 is not the best way to go, it would be better if they did a Supercharged GT500, because turbo is used primarly in smaller engines, more delicate and may be less efficient. Speaking of DOHC, this is what I said long time ago, Chevy should move already from OHV to DOHC, but no one really seemed to agree with me and defended the OHV structure. Sure it can be smaller and lighter than DOHC (which I don't think Chevy knows they can do that as Camaro isn't all that light), but DOHC is a much better base to build on.

 

[thePill]

The thought of such a long valvetrain like a pushrod motor has seems so antiquated. If GM had DOHC and independently adjustable cam timing like Ford V8 engines do on a big cube motor we would all benefit in the short run.

They invested nearly a billion dollars into the LT1 V8, it's not going anywhere, anytime soon.

They should have invested in the '90's while the tech was cheaper and patents were still open.

As of now, any DOHC engine GM builds will have something in common with one already produced. GM has very little OHC patents set aside... they may even need to outsource or purchase a design now. It's the cheapest way forward...

 

[Simon]

They invested nearly a billion dollars into the LT1 V8, it's not going anywhere, anytime soon.

They should have invested in the '90's while the tech was cheaper and patents were still open.

As of now, any DOHC engine GM builds will have something in common with one already produced. GM has very little OHC patents set aside... they may even need to outsource or purchase a design now. It's the cheapest way forward...

True, but how long do you think they can keep on updating a 24 year old structure? If it's going to be next year, or in 15 years, they will have to switch from OHV, and I said it also earlier, that the earlier they do it, the better it will be for them price wise, etc.. Should have they done it in '91 instead of devolopement of a new OHV, they would have gained much more, but the longer they wait, the harder it will be for them to make a move in that direction which they will have to soonber or later.

 

[DiMaio90]

The thought of such a long valvetrain like a pushrod motor has seems so antiquated. If GM had DOHC and independently adjustable cam timing like Ford V8 engines do on a big cube motor we would all benefit in the short run.

The point of sticking with cam in block is that it allows for big cubes in a small package. GM would not be able to build a 6.2L DOHC engine in the same compact and relatively light package . Neither could Ford, or I think they would have done it by now.

If GM goes DOHC they will move to smaller cube engine in roughly the same overall dimensions. The only difference from a driving perspective would be the type of power delivery, cam in block-high torque right off idle. DOHC-high rpm screamer.

I don't think there would be any real difference in performance if GM were to go to DOHC. Camaro and Mustang are very close in performance atm. When Camaro is losing at a model level, it is not because of the engine in the car, it is because of the car surrounding the engine.

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