Hellcat Production - Lessons Learned

[Cruzinaround]

^the VooDoo as per Jamal Hameedi will bolt right into a Mustang GT. Thus when questioned about the mention of a crate option in the future it was not dismissed. Its very possible that anyone who buys an Ecoboost or a V6 Mustang has the potential to build a real Sleeper VooDoo beast for less money than buying the GT350.

Imagine that. ;-)

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[Blk2015GT]

^the VooDoo as per Jamal Hameedi will bolt right into a Mustang GT. Thus when questioned about the mention of a crate option in the future it was not dismissed. Its very possible that anyone who buys an Ecoboost or a V6 Mustang has the potential to build a real Sleeper VooDoo beast for less money than buying the GT350.

Imagine that. ;-)

Well sure if you want to spend $20-30k on the crate engine. The Trinity crate engine (the 5.8 in the GT500) is about $30k. Makes no financial sense to put in vs buying the actual car.

My point really was the Hellcat, the premise of this thread, is an engine drop-in while a GT350 is a significantly different car than the Mustang it's built off of, so simple "doubling production" is a pipe dream.

 

[R 350 gt Donson]

According to MotorTrend the Challenger's best 0-60 mph run was with a second-gear start, resulting in a 3.7-second time, and an impressive quarter-mile performance of 11.7 seconds at a stupid-fast 125.4 mph.

And the GT350 R was the same 3.7 sec's 0-60 with about 200 HP less....WOW

 

[Rated R]

Well sure if you want to spend $20-30k on the crate engine. The Trinity crate engine (the 5.8 in the GT500) is about $30k. Makes no financial sense to put in vs buying the actual car.

My point really was the Hellcat, the premise of this thread, is an engine drop-in while a GT350 is a significantly different car than the Mustang it's built off of, so simple "doubling production" is a pipe dream.

The Hellcat is not just a drop in engine. There are many differences compared to a SRT8 Challenger.

 

[DrumReaper]

According to MotorTrend the Challenger's best 0-60 mph run was with a second-gear start, resulting in a 3.7-second time, and an impressive quarter-mile performance of 11.7 seconds at a stupid-fast 125.4 mph.

And the GT350 R was the same 3.7 sec's 0-60 with about 200 HP less....WOW

The 350R is faster than the GT3 around Grattan. The GT3 does 0-60 in 3.3. That means in order for the 350R to be faster on the track as a GT3 with PDK it has to be at least as quick to 60 and making up the difference between shifting with faster corner speeds which is concerning cause I know that Porsche is stuck in a corner.

 

[prevent34]

The Hellcat is not just a drop in engine. There are many differences compared to a SRT8 Challenger.

Exactly. Unfortunately some of us here know little more than what we have read on enthusiasts sites. Pretty easy to pick out by the obvious misconceptions that they propogate. As if Ford could not build 10,000 SE Mustangs in a year vs 5,000. Flatly laughable.

 

[krt22]

Well sure if you want to spend $20-30k on the crate engine. The Trinity crate engine (the 5.8 in the GT500) is about $30k. Makes no financial sense to put in vs buying the actual car.

My point really was the Hellcat, the premise of this thread, is an engine drop-in while a GT350 is a significantly different car than the Mustang it's built off of, so simple "doubling production" is a pipe dream.

It's never ever cheaper to build vs buy.

I would also take the GT3 vs GT350 comments with a grain of salt. No one mentioned times, no one mentioned if they were professional drivers , no mention of 991 or 997 (although both are balls fast).

 

[cjgt350]

The Hellcat is not just a drop in engine. There are many differences compared to a SRT8 Challenger.

Like what? Ok the front valance is different, swaybars and badges..oh and power keys if you count those. What else? Have you built both on Dodges website? 90% of the difference is the engine...period. Trans, brakes, wheels, body panels inc hood, interior inc seats are the same. Seriously I am asking? I searched and built them and this is all I found.

As if Ford could not build 10,000 SE Mustangs in a year vs 5,000. Flatly laughable.

Can and will are two totally different things so not following since no one said that Ford couldn't.

 

[Blk2015GT]

Like what? Ok the front valance is different, swaybars and badges..oh and power keys if you count those. What else? Have you built both on Dodges website? 90% of the difference is the engine...period. Trans, brakes, wheels, body panels inc hood, interior inc seats are the same. Seriously I am asking? I searched and built them and this is all I found.




Can and will are two totally different things so not following since no one said that Ford couldn't.

Thank you someone gets it. It's not LITERALLY drop in an engine and done, but its 90% the same parts. The GT to GT350 is nowhere near 90% of the same parts. People are being WAY too literal with comments made.

AGAIN for the dense ones in here, the point is that it is not simply ramping up engine/trans production and some plastic badges to stick on a Challenger, and boom we have double production. The GT350 is a vastly different car minus the bones/frame. COULD Ford do it? Of course for a price. WILL they, very likely no.

According to MotorTrend the Challenger's best 0-60 mph run was with a second-gear start, resulting in a 3.7-second time, and an impressive quarter-mile performance of 11.7 seconds at a stupid-fast 125.4 mph.

And the GT350 R was the same 3.7 sec's 0-60 with about 200 HP less....WOW

Yup. Mostly because the Hellcat weights almost a full 1,000 pounds more (4560 pounds) That's a TON of weight. 707hp has to move 4500 pounds.

People also seem to forget 526hp is a LOT of hp. Not even 6-7 years ago the GT500 with 500hp was one of the most powerful production cars.

 

[w3rkn]

Actually, you could say that differences between the 5.4 vs the 5.8 are pretty similar to the difference between a 5.0 and 5.2. Both stroked, stonger internals, new intakes, heads, etc. So, if Ford was willing to do only two years on the Trinity, no reason why they wouldn't do two years on a less expensive motor. And yes, the Voodoo will be less expensive...no blower, no intercooler, etc.

:lol:

Except you can not say that^, because the 5.2 flat plane crank is hand built and has has way more research and development than the Trinity. (Which was just slapped on parts)

Ford would not... research and develop such an engine for only 2 years, that idea is not sound.

 

[Blk2015GT]

:lol:

Except you can not say that^, because the 5.2 flat plane crank is hand built and has has way more research and development than the Trinity. (Which was just slapped on parts)

Ford would not... research and develop such an engine for only 2 years, that idea is not sound.

Technically we have no idea what R&D on the voodoo was or if it will be around 2 years or 10.

And technically the Trinity engine was marked as "hand built" with a builder badge on them too so...

 

[Erik427]

According to MotorTrend the Challenger's best 0-60 mph run was with a second-gear start, resulting in a 3.7-second time, and an impressive quarter-mile performance of 11.7 seconds at a stupid-fast 125.4 mph.

And the GT350 R was the same 3.7 sec's 0-60 with about 200 HP less....WOW

But does the GT350 have the same top end charge? I still say 12.3 to 12.4 at the strip. I hope that I'm wrong and we get a mid 11 second run.

 

[Rated R]

Like what? Ok the front valance is different, swaybars and badges..oh and power keys if you count those. What else? Have you built both on Dodges website? 90% of the difference is the engine...period. Seriously I am asking? I searched and built them and this is all I found.

The suspension has been re-engineered on the car to account for the added weight up front. The cooling was a major feat in engineering as Dodge wanted to make sure that the Hellcat could run an entire track session without it getting heat soaked. Same with the brakes. Iirc they are the largest brakes Dodge has ever spec'd on one of their cars. The exhaust is different as well Overall the Hellcat weighs something over 300 lbs more than the SRT8. The Hellcat weighs over 4,400 lbs if you can believe that.

I had a '12 Challenger SRT8 for a while. I loved the car at first but the novelty wore off very quickly. The car is just flat out too big, and at certain angles it looks really fat. The sill line is too high on the car and the whole thing felt like a giant compromise to get the LX chassis to work with such a large two door car.

The Hellcat, in the same vain would be fun for a while. But it's just too much of a one trick pony for me too get too excited about. 275's on a 4,400 lb. 707hp car is laughable imo. And they'll never make the Mustang sized 'Cuda I'd be interested in.

 

[Blk2015GT]

But does the GT350 have the same top end charge? I still say 12.3 to 12.4 at the strip. I hope that I'm wrong and we get a mid 11 second run.

The GT350 was never intended to be a straight line car. A Boss track replacement, and to compete with the Z-28, yes. The Shelby Super Snake is the straight line car.

And I'd bet faster than 12.3-12.4. It has almost 100hp more than the GT with Pilot Super Sport stock 10/11" tires, a better suspension, and a bit lighter than a GT. It also revs higher and more power in the powerband than a GT with a flatter torque curve, and less shifting because it revs high.

People are running mid 12s in stock base GTs with aftemarket tires. I would say runs in the high 11s; I would guess 11.7-12.0 range.

 

[cjgt350]

The suspension has been re-engineered on the car to account for the added weight up front. The cooling was a major feat in engineering as Dodge wanted to make sure that the Hellcat could run an entire track session without it getting heat soaked. Same with the brakes. Iirc they are the largest brakes Dodge has ever spec'd on one of their cars. The exhaust is different as well Overall the Hellcat weighs something over 300 lbs more than the SRT8. The Hellcat weighs over 4,400 lbs if you can believe that.

I had a '12 Challenger SRT8 for a while. I loved the car at first but the novelty wore off very quickly. The car is just flat out too big, and at certain angles it looks really fat. The sill line is too high on the car and the whole thing felt like a giant compromise to get the LX chassis to work with such a large two door car.

The Hellcat, in the same vain would be fun for a while. But it's just too much of a one trick pony for me too get too excited about. 275's on a 4,400 lb. 707hp car is laughable imo. And they'll never make the Mustang sized 'Cuda I'd be interested in.

Same brakes on both, man. I understand you may be thinking the 2012 vs current model offerings. Springs and swaybars I guess could be called re-engineering but that is due to extra weight on the nose not better handling, heat exchanger for the supercharger...part of the engine. Not trying to right fight here but even the SRT boys concede it is almost just the engine on differences.

http://www.drivesrt.com/news/2014/0...srt-hellcat-and-dodge-challenger-srt-392.html

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