Hellcat Production - Lessons Learned

[cjgt350]

I have a questions. I found it interesting that the GT350 is one of the options on the new Mustang "build & price" web site. Were other limited production vehicles like the Boss and GT500 ever shown on the B&P web site? Sincere question.

Yes they were. Because once you build and then try to locate one what loads on the screen?...Mustangs not GT350's.

Ford does this just like everyone else with a halo car built to engage the customer excitement of the brand and sell more cars. Sure bragging rights, racing, etc are part of it but the bean counters are counting on more sales which is time tested and proven that it works. Mustang sales will jump on account of the GT350's existence just like Challengers and Chargers. Just try to get a Scat Pak model. They are as hard to find as a Hellcat almost. Challenger sales increased 27% after the Hellcat was announced. Dodge did this for the same reason...get the public excited about their brand again, get them in the showroom and sell more cars.

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[Rated R]

http://wwwqa.bp3.ford.com/2016-Ford...rmal&branding=1&zipcode=77339&lang=en#/Style/

They must still be working on this site as it doesn't show many of the options, won't display AG, nor the gas guzzler tax. As such the total price is off about $2K from what I ordered.

 

[jjw]

Jim Owens stated a vague figure based on what they think the market will absorb based on history. That itself is "market speculation". Its not that hard to understand. They are not going to pump out cars that sit unsold on lots (brand management as suggested), but I'm not sure why anyone would think they will hit 5k (or some predetermined number) and say "ok all done!" if there are people waiting to order cars? They will adapt, not hold back based on what Jim Owens said in an interview. If there is a huge demand, we will see some of this tech trickle down into the GT. Does investing in the niche line voodoo tooling only to limit its output make any sense? Or does it make more sense to take what you have learned and scale it up?
Ford Performance/ SVT had to make a business case to build the GT350. Same thing with the Focus RS. That case included target production numbers to justify the cars existence. We are hearing those numbers (around 5k for gt350). If Ford doesn't hit those numbers, it will be harder for SVT to justify these niche vehicles in the future. If they hit and exceed these numbers, they will have more leeway with future vehicles… which is what they want. These guys didn't get into engineering to build appliances. They are enthusiasts who want to make $ doing what they love while getting big pats on the back for it. Unlike the FGT and is carbon tub (and whatever other unobtanium it is built with), the GT350 (besides the R carbon wheels) does not include anything that due to supplier issues could limit the production of the car. There is nothing terribly exotic, or anything costs more to manufacture then it did to to the R&D on. The vast majority of $ that Ford put into this car is in SVT R&D personnel hours that build upon the huge investment in tooling up for the base mustang. This was IMMEDIATELY evident when they started releasing details. This car is smart, bang-for-the-buck high performance engineering at its finest… something much greater then the sum of its parts. Beyond amortization of R&D time, the drivetrain cannot cost a whole lot more than a base GT to produce. The Mag shocks have to be the most expensive component cost, and they are not exactly a bleeding edge component that is only available in very limited numbers these days. Ford was on a mission to build a 6th gen with "good bones", and they did. Those bones made it much easier for SVT/Ford Performance to get amazing results with very cost effective tweaks and upgrades. It is smart business. So is selling cars. Large ADM's go directly against what Ford is trying to do with this car, and could actually hurt them. SVT/Ford Performance is in the job of building and selling great value/dollar performance vehicles, not speculating on what sort of "limited edition" SE they can make and market to speculators as the next great investment car (something that is pretty much a joke). Shelby never artificially limited production of its Mustangs and Cobras in the 60's, it just happened that way. Look at the 66 carryover GT350's and 70 gt350/500s. There was a time when no one wanted 289/427 cobras and they were rolled off the showroom floor and into the backs of dealerships. Lack of demand is what limited production.
Something else to consider. This isn't public domain political journalism. Its highly competitive private industry operating well within legal and ethical boundaries. There is good reason that people don't share everything they know or cite all of their sources. Some of what I have said in this forum might be inside info and some is opinion based on logic that proved to be right as I/we have learned more. Nobody owes it to anybody to say which is which.

 

[krt22]

I have a questions. I found it interesting that the GT350 is one of the options on the new Mustang "build & price" web site. Were other limited production vehicles like the Boss and GT500 ever shown on the B&P web site? Sincere question.

Yeah seems silly since you cant get one, let alone at MSRP anytime soon

Someone asked about 2017, dealers have confirmed their buy into the program entails 1 allocation for 2016 and 1 for 2017, so there will be a 2017 for sure. Would not make sense for ford to do all this R&D only to sell 5000 cars.

 

[cjgt350]

Yeah seems silly since you cant get one, let alone at MSRP anytime soon

Someone asked about 2017, dealers have confirmed their buy into the program entails 1 allocation for 2016 and 1 for 2017, so there will be a 2017 for sure. Would not make sense for ford to do all this R&D only to sell 5000 cars.

There was a lot of speculation on the "Trinity" engine at the time. Everyone saying surely they didn't develop that engine for just two model years but it sure appears they did. Granted it was more of an evolution of the 5.4L.

 

[krt22]

There was a lot of speculation on the "Trinity" engine at the time. Everyone saying surely they didn't develop that engine for just two model years but it sure appears they did. Granted it was more of an evolution of the 5.4L.

Yeah, a lot less RnD for stroking out and existing motor vs building one from the ground up with a completely different architecture. And they still sold almost 10,000 of those. We will have the Gt350 for 16/17, beyond that who knows.

 

[cjgt350]

Yeah, a lot less RnD for stroking out and existing motor vs building one from the ground up with a completely different architecture. And they still sold almost 10,000 of those. We will have the Gt350 for 16/17, beyond that who knows.

If they can figure out the fuel efficiency of the FPC then it could be a game changer. Maybe forced induction for the GT500? Who knows? Direct injection? Until then the VooDoo has a singular purpose and hence a shelf life on account of the CAFE stds IMHO. Going to be fun to find out that's for sure.

 

[krt22]

They will have to make it better or sell a ton of fusion/cmax/etc hybrids and EVs

 

[tlondon]

They must still be working on this site as it doesn't show many of the options, won't display AG, nor the gas guzzler tax. As such the total price is off about $2K from what I ordered.

They are, there's a "qa" right after the "www" in the address for quality assurance.

 

[350Mike]

http://wwwqa.bp3.ford.com/2016-Ford...rmal&branding=1&zipcode=77339&lang=en#/Style/

When did this go live? I was on their last night.

 

[Cruzinaround]

Yeah, a lot less RnD for stroking out and existing motor vs building one from the ground up with a completely different architecture. And they still sold almost 10,000 of those. We will have the Gt350 for 16/17, beyond that who knows.

The Trinity Engine was a proof of concept for the future treatment of cylinder walls which would be applicable to any motor across the FORD/Lincoln lineup.

It was the last hoorah for the 5.4 modular. But indeed proved what we can achieve to breathe more performance out of a dated platform. Thus the GT350 VooDoo motor now has the same Plasma treatment of its Cylinder walls and the future of the Coyote platform could also benefit from the same treatment prior to any release of a GT500 succesor or a Mach1, etc, etc ,etc

Innovation requires moving forward into tomorrow with what we learn today from what what we improved upon yesterday...

 

[krt22]

Regardless of why it was done, my point is much less effort went into that engine than the voodoo, and there isnt much about the voodoo that fits into fords current path towards smaller less thirsty FI engines

 

[cjgt350]

The Trinity Engine was a proof of concept for the future treatment of cylinder walls which would be applicable to any motor across the FORD/Lincoln lineup.

Not quite...the 5.4L in the 2011-12 GT500 was the first to use the plasma arc cylinder treatment. The 5.8L or Trinity in the 2013-14 GT500 was just an evolution of that yet not proof of concept.

 

[Big reg]

One of the problems is dealers offering to buy from others dealers over MSRP. Then they think they can turn around and jack it up even higher. Just sucks. I know they are independent dealers and why not get what you can. This has been going on for a long time. One dealer I contacted thinks they can get ---wait got it ---- $50k over.:doh:
Hell I'll go buy a Jaguar F-type or NSX for a little more money.

Exactly. A local GM dealer that specializes in performance vehicles has 6-7 Charger Hellcats and a few Challengers too. All selling for 76-79,995 and some are not even new. Unreal. I'm curious to know the actual transaction price as their asking prices are always sky high.

I looked at a 14 Z/28 from the same place with 10k miles and non factory Toyo T1 tires. They wanted 61k. You can get a 4-5k mile car for 55K.

http://www.denooyerchevrolet.com/searchused.aspx?make=Dodge

 

[Tony Alonso]

Facts:

Fact- Jim Owens is the VP Marketing at Shelby Automobiles- in the "know" clearly

Actually, I believe he works at Ford again at this time.

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