For the MT owners: how do you downshift?

[Charles147]

H/T is a different story, because the exact technique varies depending on pedal arrangement & positioning (somewhat vehicle specific) - and also on driver physique/joint flexibility. Norm

You are catching on to my point. Almost there.

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[Norm Peterson]

It's the part of my post that you didn't just quote that was my main point . . .

Nobody's H/T demonstration in my '08 GT would be completely useful here. Not even if it was Randy Pobst running the demonstration and providing the commentary.


Norm

 

[Horse]

You are catching on to my point. Almost there.

Care to spell out what your POINT is? Are you hinting/claiming that it is impossible/difficult to heel-toe in 2015 Mustang (stock set up, no tricks played here)?

I have read that some said that the brake and gas pedals are too far apart to do heel-toe. (And some have modified their gas pedals.) Well, I don't have a mustang, and have never sat in a mustang and check the pedals in person. So no comments here.

In the car I am driving now (an A-to-B car), the brake and gas pedals are also pretty far away from each other, almost as wide as my foot. But I can manage to heel-toe just fine. (I don't have videos to prove myself. You don't have to believe me, lol.)

 

[Horse]

This thread is proof positive that men have menstrual cycles... people getting a little hissy.

What I learned in this thread:

What double clutching is. Figured what it was, but still do not see how it is an advantage to just holding in the clutch. Still think it became 20x more well known after Dominic mentioned it.

That you can shift without clutch. Have seen that in Nascar, but was not sure why you would do it. Could be useful in an emergency, faster on a racetrack but seems to be a novelty for normal street driving. Interesting but not tangibly an advantage. Pretty sure any attempts by me to replicate this would lead to a trip to the transmission shop.

That rev matching makes for smoother shifts and may improve clutch life. At the very least it makes for happier passengers.

That people are very sensitive about other people's opinions about how they shift and why.

Regardless of this conversation, I enjoy my manual Stang immensely and do not put much thought into whether or not I should be double clutching.

Cheers and good night! Has been fun learning a little about shifting techniques despite the controversy.

Forgot to mention heel-toe? :gossip:

 

[Charles147]

Care to spell out what your POINT is? Are you hinting/claiming that it is impossible/difficult to heel-toe in 2015 Mustang (stock set up, no tricks played here)?

I have read that some said that the brake and gas pedals are too far apart to do heel-toe. (And some have modified their gas pedals.) Well, I don't have a mustang, and have never sat in a mustang and check the pedals in person. So no comments here.

In the car I am driving now (an A-to-B car), the brake and gas pedals are also pretty far away from each other, almost as wide as my foot. But I can manage to heel-toe just fine. (I don't have videos to prove myself. You don't have to believe me, lol.)

Care to read post #252. LOL.

 

[OppoLock]

Care to spell out what your POINT is? Are you hinting/claiming that it is impossible/difficult to heel-toe in 2015 Mustang (stock set up, no tricks played here)?

I have read that some said that the brake and gas pedals are too far apart to do heel-toe. (And some have modified their gas pedals.) Well, I don't have a mustang, and have never sat in a mustang and check the pedals in person. So no comments here.

In the car I am driving now (an A-to-B car), the brake and gas pedals are also pretty far away from each other, almost as wide as my foot. But I can manage to heel-toe just fine. (I don't have videos to prove myself. You don't have to believe me, lol.)

It's f*cking difficult, man. Either you get some plastic surgery to turn your foot into a ping pong paddle or you buy an extension/modify your pedal set.

If you sit in a typical driver's position--which would consist of sitting low to the ground, rather upright, and closer to the wheel--there's almost no way to do it gracefully. The pedals aren't just widely spaced; they're staggered with the brake pedal set further.

 

[Horse]

1 video how to clutchless shift. Not exactly what people are interested in. This is more like something to say you can do it but not applicable to most.

Well, I'll say it again. Show some videos of H/T and rev-matching downshifts in a 15. You know how they say pics or it didn't happen...

Think about it. Why post how to downshift and H/T on the internet. Flipping google it and you can read and watch all about it.

The real question should be how do you rev-match and H/T in a 15. This is really a topic that must be demonstrated through pictures and videos.

I think there are some skerd folks especially if you have a camera out there that say they are MT heros and wont show a video because of the feedback they will get. That's my POV and nothing will change it until I see videos.

Care to read post #252. LOL.

How to rev-match and H/T in a 15? As Norm has replied, it should pretty much the same as far as rev-match and double clutch are concerned (of course, one must be familiar with the clutch catch point and the responsiveness of the gas pedal of a particular car). For H/T in a 15 mustang, I don't know.

What is your opinion on H/T in a 15 mustang? Have you tried it (with success or not)? How does it compare with H/T in other cars (assuming you have done H/T in other cars)?

Any pictures of the pedals in a 15 mustang?

Lastly, this thread is about driving manual cars (e.g., downshift), not necessarily 15 mustang specific.

 

[Horse]

It's f*cking difficult, man. Either you get some plastic surgery to turn your foot into a ping pong paddle or you buy an extension/modify your pedal set.

If you sit in a typical driver's position--which would consist of sitting low to the ground, rather upright, and closer to the wheel--there's almost no way to do it gracefully. The pedals aren't just widely spaced; they're staggered with the brake pedal set further.

OK, I remember reading this in other threads. Too bad Ford did not design this the right way.

 

[Horse]

http://www.edmunds.com/ford/mustang...ent-keeps-lost-art-of-heel-and-toe-alive.html

2015 Ford Mustang GT: Pedal Placement Keeps Lost Art of Heel-and-Toe Alive
April 24, 2015

Realistically, with some work and/or practice, you can perform heel-and-toe downshifts on just about any manual transmission car. But some cars definitely make this soon-to-be-lost-art easier than others. There are two keys to heel-and-toeing, besides lots of practice: Good brake-to-gas-pedal placement and a responsive throttle.

The 2015 Ford Mustang GT has both.

In olden times, people really did the true heel-and-toe action, with the ball or toes of their right foot on the brake pedal and the heel blipping the throttle.

These days — and the Mustang is a good example of this — the pedals are arranged so that you do it more with the left side of your right foot on the brake pedal and the right side of your right foot on the gas, instead of a true heel-and-toe. We still call it heel-and-toe anyway.

You can see in the photo the Mustang's brake pedal is within relatively close proximity of the gas pedal, and that's key for making blipping the throttle easy to smooth out your downshifts. I'm not saying it's best-ever, but it's pretty darn good.

Interestingly, although I complained about the touchiness of the Mustang's brakes recently, that aspect never affected my heel-and-toeing. I think that's because the grabby brakes are more of a low-speed problem. Usually you're making heel-and-toe downshifts at higher speeds and with forceful brake pressure involved, like when setting up for a turn.

The Mustang's responsive gas pedal also makes it decent for heel-and-toeing. It's considerably harder to be smooth if you need to move your right foot dramatically to stab the throttle and get the revs to rise. The Mustang has none of that, the revs rise nicely as soon as you touch the gas.

Mike Monticello, Senior Road Test Editor @ 5,375 miles

And I am just a messenger.

 

[mikeyjobu]

http://www.edmunds.com/ford/mustang...ent-keeps-lost-art-of-heel-and-toe-alive.html



And I am just a messenger.

Shoot him anyway! :headbonk:

 

[mikeyjobu]

It's totally doable -- but yeah -- the brakes are really touchy at low speed. That's what was so great about my old Beetle when I had it -- it was low-performance, but would teach you all you needed to know about high-performance driving if you wanted to learn. I have tried more H-T in my civic (another low performance car, gas mileage notwithstanding) and I've done it some -- but the pedal box is smaller, and the gas pedal setup just doesn't feel right.

 

[Horse]

Shoot him anyway! :headbonk:

:lol:

 

[Charles147]

And I am just a messenger.

and so are we. I personally don't think it's that easy. I'm also not paid to write articles.

A little bit of brakes in the PP and it bites hard. Look in that picture and you will notice the spacing isn't necessarily far apart, brakes are much higher than the gas pedal. If the brakes were a little lower then maybe it wouldn't be that bad for me. However, maybe I have bad form and I don't realize it. A video would prove to be useful in this regard. Lastly, I have to be in sport mode because normal mode has too much play in the gas pedal. However, no mention of that in the article...I believe the author said the gas responds with a touch of the gas...So he must have been in Sport mode or he is FOS. And if he has sport mode doesn't he have the PP (I cant remember) because he would complain about the brakes bite.

I cant imagine doing this on the street in daily driver mode. I can see getting rear ended quick with the PP's stopping power. I know practice is important to be smooth but damn the car is only 9 months old or less for many. Another reason why a video would be great because I strongly believe there are a lot of keyboard warriors that act like they are the sh!t on the streets. I've been driving for a long time and I listen to the engine noise of plenty of Mustang's ripping down the road and they are not racecar drivers. I use to take my bike to the track with friends and watch all these guys think they are the sh!t on the street until their first track day. Ego's get in the way because they don't get bumped up and so forth. Hell it's the internet, lets all just be racecar drivers and be the best-est in our own minds.

And depending on the shoe, it'll catch on the rubber grips. My work shoes such as those shown in the picture are fine but some of my tennis shoes like my Nike AirMax suck trying to rotate the foot.

 

[Tamadrummer88]

I wish there was an instructional video about rev matching that has more doing than talking like a lot of the other ones I've seen.


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[mikeyjobu]

and so are we. I personally don't think it's that easy. I'm also not paid to write articles.

A little bit of brakes in the PP and it bites hard. Look in that picture and you will notice the spacing isn't necessarily far apart, brakes are much higher than the gas pedal. If the brakes were a little lower then maybe it wouldn't be that bad for me. However, maybe I have bad form and I don't realize it. A video would prove to be useful in this regard. Lastly, I have to be in sport mode because normal mode has too much play in the gas pedal. However, no mention of that in the article...I believe the author said the gas responds with a touch of the gas...So he must have been in Sport mode or he is FOS. And if he has sport mode doesn't he have the PP (I cant remember) because he would complain about the brakes bite.

I cant imagine doing this on the street in daily driver mode. I can see getting rear ended quick with the PP's stopping power. I know practice is important to be smooth but damn the car is only 9 months old or less for many. Another reason why a video would be great because I strongly believe there are a lot of keyboard warriors that act like they are the sh!t on the streets. I've been driving for a long time and I listen to the engine noise of plenty of Mustang's ripping down the road and they are not racecar drivers. I use to take my bike to the track with friends and watch all these guys think they are the sh!t on the street until their first track day. Ego's get in the way because they don't get bumped up and so forth. Hell it's the internet, lets all just be racecar drivers and be the best-est in our own minds.

And depending on the shoe, it'll catch on the rubber grips. My work shoes such as those shown in the picture are fine but some of my tennis shoes like my Nike AirMax suck trying to rotate the foot.

The right shoe helps. I actually think it's easier in my flip-flops than my work shoes -- maybe because there's less of a heel, and I can discern what's going on better? I haven't tried my driving shoes yet :headbonk: Too bad barefoot is illegal where I am...


edit: Also please note that the author of the article speaks to the grabbiness of the brakes at low speed, and how this didn't impact H-T because it's more of a high-speed corner entry technique -- not a problem with a slow car with mediocre brakes -- but in a high-performance car...

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