Supercharging fact and fiction help me clear up my worries

[ThatSilverCar]

'23 Mach 1, 6 speed. Car has been fantastic esp. after some suspension and tire changes. But I still have that want for that instant off idle torque. This makes me really want a root style super charger.

However, I really really worry that it's going to ruin this car in some way. I occasionally do an hpde weekend, but primary I road drive this car. But I keep hearing that root style means you can't really track it anymore due to heat soak etc. I also keep reading this is going to blow out my cats, opening the need for going catless etc. whitch I really don't want to do, and various other variations of the car is ruined for the track once you root super charger it....

I don't know what's fact or fiction at this point. I know they are different engines but there are OEM super charged tracked mustangs. Gt500, GTD, Dark Horse SC, along with various other non-mustang super charged tracked cars.

So what's the real deal here?

Sponsored

 

[SheepDog]

Adding a blower won't make it a better HPDE/Track car anyway. It will however, make it a lot more fun on the street.

The MACH1 does have additional cooling that the GT does not, which Im sure would help. If you only doing a HPDE once in a while, Im sure it would be fine - mostly because you probably aren't pushing the car very hard to begin with. Once you start putting sticky tires on it, aggressive track brake pads, suspension mods etc. and going a lot harder, the heat could become an issue. A Centrifugal supercharger won't have as much of the heat soak issues, but if the desire is that low down instant torque, you do want the PD blower

 

[ThatSilverCar]

Adding a blower won't make it a better HPDE/Track car anyway. It will however, make it a lot more fun on the street.

The MACH1 does have additional cooling that the GT does not, which Im sure would help. If you only doing a HPDE once in a while, Im sure it would be fine - mostly because you probably aren't pushing the car very hard to begin with. Once you start putting sticky tires on it, aggressive track brake pads, suspension mods etc. and going a lot harder, the heat could become an issue. A Centrifugal supercharger won't have as much of the heat soak issues, but of the desire is that low down instant torque, you do want the PD blower

Thanks for the reply, def not hoping it will make me better at hpde. More worried it will make the experience worse or even worse hurt the car while it's being abused on the track. It functions so well now I really don't want to spend all the time and money then find out I made it worse or scatter it on the track.

No desire to be competitive, just here to have a good time.

 

[mepawn]

You absolutely can do a roots style blower and beat on it at an HPDE event. Now granted i do not do HPDE events but i do drag race. I drive my car to the track 45min one way and then race it and my intake temps remain low. Then again i put a lot of time and effort into cooling. You can get an interchiller kit that almost eliminates the heat soak issue and it is what i have.

 

[SheepDog]

or even worse hurt the car while it's being abused on the track

One thing I would say about this, is don't even consider it unless you plan on running E85. These engines were never designed for forced induction, so the knock protection and cooling that ethanol provides is a lifeline for a 12:1 boosted motor. All of the other cars you mentioned that are built for track work from the factory, have much stronger rotating assemblies, and lower compression ratios. Drag racing is not the same torture on an engine as track racing is. 20 minutes of near redline isn't the same thing as 12 seconds

 

[ThatSilverCar]

One thing I would say about this, is don't even consider it unless you plan on running E85. These engines were never designed for forced induction, so the knock protection and cooling that ethanol provides is a lifeline for a 12:1 boosted motor. All of the other cars you mentioned that are built for track work from the factory, have much stronger rotating assemblies, and lower compression ratios. Drag racing is not the same torture on an engine as track racing is. 20 minutes of near redline isn't the same thing as 12 seconds

Yea this is the kind of comment that worries me. I absolutely do not want this risk. Understand there is always some inherent risk to adding boost. But I worry that adding boost is going to remove my ability to ever track my car again without doing some heavy engine work either before or well... after .

 

[SheepDog]

Yea this is the kind of comment that worries me. I absolutely do not want this risk. Understand there is always some inherent risk to adding boost. But I worry that adding boost is going to remove my ability to ever track my car again without doing some heavy engine work either before or well... after .

There is always risk with adding boost to a system that wasn't designed for it, even if you are just out driving it on a spirited weekend. The Coyote (when tune correctly and with E85) can tolerate quite a bit, but if you aren't prepared to buy a new motor in the event that things go tits up, it probably doesn't make a lot sense.

You have 4 options in my opinion:

1- buy a GT500
2- boost your car and be financially prepared to fix things that break
3- leave it stock and don't worry about it (this still doesn't mean that things don't break when you are racing it)
4- Build your motor and transmission ahead of time (still might break depending on how hard you push it)

 

[ehazel]

One thing to keep in mind that hasn't been mentioned is putting the power down with a PD blower. I'm a 10r80 car with 325 ps4s tires, so different gearing but I have to limit torque output via the tune for first and second gear to around 30-40% and I can still spin the tires.

Keeping temps under control is also going to be a big pain. You will end up having to do race louvers or similar and most likely upgrading radiators, and oil coolers to run full sessions.

Be prepared to eat 10-20k if the engine lets go. I had the whipple stage 2 kit installed for about 10k miles before I cracked ring lands and started burning oil like crazy. I ended up putting a fully built engine back in to the tune of around 18k.

 

[mepawn]

One thing I would say about this, is don't even consider it unless you plan on running E85. These engines were never designed for forced induction, so the knock protection and cooling that ethanol provides is a lifeline for a 12:1 boosted motor. All of the other cars you mentioned that are built for track work from the factory, have much stronger rotating assemblies, and lower compression ratios. Drag racing is not the same torture on an engine as track racing is. 20 minutes of near redline isn't the same thing as 12 seconds

While you are right that HPDE and drag racing are not the same in terms of stress on an engine. The HPDE NEEDS to address heat as that is the main killer in HPDE. Drag racing though you are pushing everything to its strength limits and pushing the boundaries of what an engine can take. Mine im pushing 27psi maxing the blower and hitting 7.8k rpms. Then again i have a built motor.

 

[SheepDog]

Then again i have a built motor.

apples and oranges good Sir.

 

[mepawn]

apples and oranges good Sir.

Well i built my motor due to cracking my crank from drag racing. I guess the point is in drag racing your going to brake before any damage from overheating.

For HPDE the main concern is heat, and then dont rev it to the limiter and stay below 600ish hp and you should be golden.

 

[SheepDog]

I guess the point is in drag racing your going to brake before any damage from overheating.

Breaking a crankshaft seems pretty catastrophic to me. Was it the snout?

I think if I was going to do any kind of racing with a FI Coyote, it would be turbo's vs. anything belt driven

It's all a calculated risk. Some last a long time, others pop on the first time out.

A built motor completely changes the game, both from a strength perspective and that of heat tolerance which is why Ford built the Predator the way they did from the beginning. You can absolutely build a Coyote to this spec or much higher, but $$$. Then there is the transmission.
The TR3160 is a perfect fit for the MACH1, but not when it has 600-800 or more pounds of torque going through it, banging gears and pegging the RPM's.

 

[mepawn]

Breaking a crankshaft seems pretty catastrophic to me. Was it the snout?

I think if I was going to do any kind of racing with a FI Coyote, it would be turbo's vs. anything belt driven

It's all a calculated risk. Some last a long time, others pop on the first time out.

A built motor completely changes the game, both from a strength perspective and that of heat tolerance which is why Ford built the Predator the way they did from the beginning. You can absolutely build a Coyote to this spec or much higher, but $$$. Then there is the transmission.
The TR3160 is a perfect fit for the MACH1, but not when it has 600-800 or more pounds of torque going through it, banging gears and pegging the RPM's.

Oddly enough it was not the snout. It was actually a rod journal that developed a Crack and I blew up a crank sprocket. Caused some good knocking noises.but everything miraculously remained in time with no head/valve destruction.

Id advise a crank support though with anything belt driven. A whipple crank support will work with a VMP/roush blower.

 

[ThatSilverCar]

So what I'm reading is I need to stick to my gut here and leave the boost alone if I want to continue my HPDE weekends in the future. Or risk uncle Rodney impersonating the kool-aid man with my block.

While I can financially support scattering this engine I very much do not want to. The car is plenty fine enough as it is. It's a weapon on the track as is and I don't think a blower is going to help me keep up with those dang Miatas .

Maybe I should talk the wife into a second car and boost that .

 

[mepawn]

So what I'm reading is I need to stick to my gut here and leave the boost alone if I want to continue my HPDE weekends in the future. Or risk uncle Rodney impersonating the kool-aid man with my block.

While I can financially support scattering this engine I very much do not want to. The car is plenty fine enough as it is. It's a weapon on the track as is and I don't think a blower is going to help me keep up with those dang Miatas .

Maybe I should talk the wife into a second car and boost that .

Just dont get greedy with the boost, go e85 and youd be fine.

Sponsored