E85 vs 93 Wengerd Northside Indianapolis

[sdskinner73]

Hey all. Recently went with Wengerd tune. I bought both 93 and E85. Loved the 93 tune. The E85 just doesn’t seem to be anything more as far as torque comparatively. I emailed back and forth with Wengerd to gain a better understanding. He said they have seen some cases where the 93 is better quality than the E85 and I don’t need to test it. A few friends use E85 and they recommended to stick with Casey’s. I go to Casey’s in Lebanon typically, since it’s close to my job. Wondering if anyone else in the area has had similar instances or actually tested the E around here. In no way am I blaming the tuner, just trying to decide if I should stick with the 93 tune instead. I do daily it, but with Casey’s next to work, it’s not really a problem. I’ve also used the speedway in Westfield if I need to for e85. Overall, I expected more out of the ethanol tune.

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[SheepDog]

Just depends on how much additional timing he gave you with the E85 tune, and what the limits are on the 93 octane. Like he said, if the 93 is good quality, and the knock sensors are happy, you may be getting close (timing wise) to the E85 limits he set, which would then make the power gains between the two fuels fairly negligible. You probably aren't gong to feel the difference of 10-20 HP in a 4000 pound car. Maybe slightly, but on an otherwise stock setup, the difference isn't dramatic. The massive gains between the fuels are really only evident with forced induction.

 

[sdskinner73]

Just depends on how much additional timing he gave you with the E85 tune, and what the limits are on the 93 octane. Like he said, if the 93 is good quality, and the knock sensors are happy, you may be getting close (timing wise) to the E85 limits he set, which would then make the power gains between the two fuels fairly negligible. You probably aren't gong to feel the difference of 10-20 HP in a 4000 pound car. Maybe slightly, but on an otherwise stock setup, the difference isn't dramatic. The massive gains between the fuels are really only evident with forced induction.

Got it. I wasn’t expecting some giant jump, it just seems odd to me the E85 feels less torque and power from the 93. This is my first car using ethanol, so trying to understand better. I asked if he could make the e85 any more aggressive, he said he couldn’t go more. The last log I sent showed 32.5 on timing. I am seeing if the speedway is actually poor quality and going to send another log after a few fillups with the Casey’s only.
I don’t know much about timing and tuning, that’s why I pay for it lol

 

[robvas]

You should be able to feel 20-30hp

It's the difference between your car on a cool dry day vs a hot muggy day

 

[sdskinner73]

You should be able to feel 20-30hp

It's the difference between your car on a cool dry day vs a hot muggy day

If anything, I feel less on ethanol. Which is why I’m asking. That shouldn’t be the case. I have a steeda CAI closed box, 3” cat back, and the tune. My friend had the exact same airbox on his and dynoed after each mod. With long tubes plus this, he hit 500 wheel. But his was stick. I was expecting roughly 450-460 wheel on mine with this setup. Which should have a feeling over stock. The ethanol honestly feels more like stock, just revs higher. No torque down low, compared to the 93. The weirdest part, is I’m using the same gas stations that friend uses. So I’m trying to figure out the why here.

 

[SheepDog]

If anything, I feel less on ethanol. Which is why I’m asking. That shouldn’t be the case. I have a steeda CAI closed box, 3” cat back, and the tune. My friend had the exact same airbox on his and dynoed after each mod. With long tubes plus this, he hit 500 wheel. But his was stick. I was expecting roughly 450-460 wheel on mine with this setup. Which should have a feeling over stock. The ethanol honestly feels more like stock, just revs higher. No torque down low, compared to the 93. The weirdest part, is I’m using the same gas stations that friend uses. So I’m trying to figure out the why here.

What are the knock sensors doing in the log, on E85?

 

[sdskinner73]

What are the knock sensors doing in the log, on E85?

No idea. I just do a datalog and send to him. Can I check that with the RTD myself?

 

[SheepDog]

No idea. I just do a datalog and send to him. Can I check that with the RTD myself?

Not with the TDN platform. You need to download the HP tuners VCM Suite, and then log with VCM Scanner. You said that your last log showed 32.5 degrees of timing, so I assumed you were able to view your logs.

 

[sdskinner73]

Not with the TDN platform. You need to download the HP tuners VCM Suite, and then log with VCM Scanner. You said that your last log showed 32.5 degrees of timing, so I assumed you were able to view your logs.

Oh, no, sorry. That’s what Wengerd said when I asked for a more aggressive tune.

 

[SheepDog]

Oh, no, sorry. That’s what Wengerd said when I asked for a more aggressive tune.

Id recommend testing the E85 a couple times wherever you fill up, just to be sure that the posted Ethanol content is accurate. Even best case scenario with the E in the tank, it won't be a "wow" moment. 20 HP and TQ aren't moving the needle much. Less than a 5% increase in power.

 

[sdskinner73]

Id recommend testing the E85 a couple times wherever you fill up, just to be sure that the posted Ethanol content is accurate. Even best case scenario with the E in the tank, it won't be a "wow" moment. 20 HP and TQ aren't moving the needle much. Less than a 5% increase in power.

My plan was to do another datalog and send back. I suspect the speedway ethanol is lower quality, and that is what I used to log. Only because it’s literally next to my house. If he sees the same results, I will test it and see if there’s anything noticeable. I tried to ask around, nobody has tested those two I use.

 

[SheepDog]

My plan was to do another datalog and send back. I suspect the speedway ethanol is lower quality, and that is what I used to log. Only because it’s literally next to my house. If he sees the same results, I will test it and see if there’s anything noticeable. I tried to ask around, nobody has tested those two I use.

https://www.amazon.com/Boost-Monkey...cphy=9028759&hvtargid=pla-2281435176658&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CZCCDKD...ef7b1&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9kZXRhaWw&th=1

 

[SheepDog]

Worst case scenario is that there is water in the "E85" you're filling up with.

 

[sdskinner73]

Worst case scenario is that there is water in the "E85" your filling up with.

Thanks. That’s the kit I was going to grab too (the second one).
whatever it is, something seems off. No reason e85 should feel less than 93. If I find the answer, I’ll post it here.

 

[robvas]

Not with the TDN platform. You need to download the HP tuners VCM Suite, and then log with VCM Scanner. You said that your last log showed 32.5 degrees of timing, so I assumed you were able to view your logs.

Do this on both 93 and e and post both logs here

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