Another Gem from The Driveshaft Shop

[RMoeslein]

Had a DSS aluminum driveshaft installed on my 2022 mach 1 last may. Never balanced correctly, drove me nuts. Got considerably worse last week so i took the car to a shop to get it checked out. Bad U Joints. They wouldnt reinstall the ds stating it was not safe. So i took the OEM ds up and they reinstalled that one. Care was smooth as silk with the OEM DS. I called DSS to ask for options. Approx $300 for them to rebuild and rebalance the ds. It has less than 2k miles on it.
$1000 to buy the DS
$300 to have it installed
$300 to have it uninstalled.
Then
$300 to have it rebuilt.
$300 to have it reinstalled.
I dont think so.
Both the DSS axles i installed last summer failed within 2 weeks of install. I replaced them with G-force axles.
$2000 to buy the axles(lethal performance accepted a return on these and helped me out on the price of the gforce axles, thx to lethal)
$400 install.
$400 remove and install the G-force axles.
DSS has cost me so much money installing and uninstalling the Junk they sell over the past year.
They of course would not refund me the money when i asked to just return the bad driveshaft. And they dont reimburse for costs of uninstalling and reinstalling. I dont want it rebuilt and reinstalled on my car. I will never have any DSS parts on any of my cars ever again. Im throwing the DS in the trash where it belongs.

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[SheepDog]

I had the same situation with a Shaftmasters Driveshaft on my 2017. Never could get it right, it always caused vibrations at different speeds depending on how I clocked it.

I've just come to the realization that the OEM 2 piece shaft is the best, and if you blow it up, just buy another one. They are surprisingly strong.

Also, look into improving the center bearing support for the OEM shaft.

https://www.jxbperformance.com/prod...eshaft-center-support-bearing-carrier-upgrade

 

[RAVAGE88]

There are two types of Aluminum drive shafts. Those that have gone out-of-balance after installation and those that will go out-of-balance after installation. Basically, due to the material properties of the Aluminum that's used to make these shafts, they're not good specimens of torsional loading, especially if the ends are welded in place. If these shafts are not torsionally loaded during the manufacturing process prior to being balanced, they're going to go out of balance after they're torsionally loaded on one's car. No getting around it, and that's why basically everyone is experiencing that speed-range specific vibration.

I had the same issue with a Steeda shaft that was good for about a week....loved it. However, one burn out is all it took to knock the shaft out-of-balance and no amount of indexing would change that.

The options are, talk to Mark Williams Enterprises and get an Aluminum one-piece that has bonded ends and it's torsionally loaded prior to balancing or, talk to Mark Williams Enterprises and get a Chromoly one-piece driveshaft. (I have no affiliation with Mark Williams Enterprises, my comments are based solely on Engineering research and knowledge of material properties).

The weight difference between the Chromoly and Aluminum is minimal and the difference in rotational weight has no bearing on performance. The 4XXX series of Chromoly has a high resistance to torsional loads (dump truck axles are made out of 4140 Chromoly) and it's a far better driveshaft material than the 6XXX and 7XXX Aluminum, even in the T6 condition.

MB

 

[RMoeslein]

appreciate the advice! Ill check that out.

 

[shogun32]

Im throwing the DS in the trash where it belongs.

take it to your local "metal recycler". They'll at least give you scrap rates for it.

and it's torsionally loaded prior to balancing

so what's the deal with the purveyors of drive-shaft product? Sounds like they don't understand the BASICS of their damn product at all. Like a machinest who doesn't bother to torque plate a block, takes a fly-cut and then wonders why when installed fluid is all over the floor because the gasket can't seat.

Is it because nobody paid any attention to such things back in the 50-70's and they keep carrying that mental deficiency forward?

 

[RMoeslein]

Nice car Shogun!!

 

[RAVAGE88]

so what's the deal with the purveyors of drive-shaft product? Sounds like they don't understand the BASICS of their damn product at all. Like a machinest who doesn't bother to torque plate a block, takes a fly-cut and then wonders why when installed fluid is all over the floor because the gasket can't seat.

Is it because nobody paid any attention to such things back in the 50-70's and they keep carrying that mental deficiency forward?

This is the million dollar question and I want to be very careful because the answer I provide will be based on a pattern of occurrences and not actually speaking to anyone with the typical purveyors that has understood the information I provided above. I believe I received the audible version of a deer in the headlights. So, maybe that's the root cause of why so many of us have struggled with anything other than the OEM two-piece shaft.

Welding 7075 is a horrible practice due to the material properties, but it's a great material for machining from billet, forging, etc. 6061 welds nicely, but, the material condition after welding requires a post process that the drive shaft makers aren't incorporating into their production protocols. And of course, these two materials are not known for their torsional qualities. So, either way, we've been chasing our tails on this one-piece Aluminum venture for years. Not to mention, the exacerbating circumstance of an angular offset from the transmission to the pinion flange, which is made worse by shafts that use U-joints instead of CV joints.

There's a host of guys here that have made a valiant effort with transmission spacers and other approaches to deal with the angular offset, which are hugely necessary to making the one-piece work. But, when the vibration issues are resident in the shaft itself, whether it was there from the beginning or not, everyone has reason to question whether the spacers or any other approach is helpful. I truly believe the spacers are necessary, which is what pointed me toward the multitude of shafts as the common failure point.

The other issue is, the pinion flange is not balanced from the factory. This is why everyone recommends indexing the pinion end of the shaft 90 degrees at a time to see if it will help. Sometimes it does, but it seems that most times it doesn't and even if it helps, the result is temporary.

The only ones I've seen approach this issue with any amount of materials and application knowledge is Mark Williams. My approach to this issue, in the near future, will be to use spacers to correct the angular offset, purchase a new pinion flange and ship it to Mark Williams and have them balance the flange and the shaft as an assembly.

MB

 

[shogun32]

The only ones I've seen approach this issue with any amount of materials and application knowledge is Mark Williams.

sounds like he's the only one with an actual engineering degree who also didn't sleep thru materials science.

 

[NGOT8R]

This is the million dollar question and I want to be very careful because the answer I provide will be based on a pattern of occurrences and not actually speaking to anyone with the typical purveyors that has understood the information I provided above. I believe I received the audible version of a deer in the headlights. So, maybe that's the root cause of why so many of us have struggled with anything other than the OEM two-piece shaft.

Welding 7075 is a horrible practice due to the material properties, but it's a great material for machining from billet, forging, etc. 6061 welds nicely, but, the material condition after welding requires a post process that the drive shaft makers aren't incorporating into their production protocols. And of course, these two materials are not known for their torsional qualities. So, either way, we've been chasing our tails on this one-piece Aluminum venture for years. Not to mention, the exacerbating circumstance of an angular offset from the transmission to the pinion flange, which is made worse by shafts that use U-joints instead of CV joints.

There's a host of guys here that have made a valiant effort with transmission spacers and other approaches to deal with the angular offset, which are hugely necessary to making the one-piece work. But, when the vibration issues are resident in the shaft itself, whether it was there from the beginning or not, everyone has reason to question whether the spacers or any other approach is helpful. I truly believe the spacers are necessary, which is what pointed me toward the multitude of shafts as the common failure point.

The only ones I've seen approach this issue with any amount of materials and application knowledge is Mark Williams.

MB

Funny you mentioned a Mark Williams. I reached out to him yesterday about building a super 8.8 rear end for me. Unfortunately, they don’t do any work to the Super 8.8.

They should be on point for building a custom driveshaft though.

 

[RAVAGE88]

sounds like he's the only one with an actual engineering degree who also didn't sleep thru materials science.

Exactly. Makes me regard the other players as dabblers.

MB

 

[RAVAGE88]

Funny you mentioned a Mark Williams. I reached out to him yesterday about building a super 8.8 rear end for me. Unfortunately, they don’t do any work to the Super 8.8.

They should be on point for building a custom driveshaft though.

Too bad on the Super 8.8, but 100% agree on the shaft. I have a couple projects happening now, but as I wrap them up, I'm shipping the new pinion flange out.

It's worth noting that the pinion flange we get, whether installed as OEM or purchased after the fact, does not run axially concentric and the face does not run true either. I could put my flange in the lathe and true it, but I'd rather ship it out to them and have it all done as an assembly. Making these one-piece shafts work properly, over the long-term, is a pretty big lift.

MB

 

[NGOT8R]

Too bad on the Super 8.8, but 100% agree on the shaft. I have a couple projects happening now, but as I wrap them up, I'm shipping the new pinion flange out.

It's worth noting that the pinion flange we get, whether installed as OEM or purchased after the fact, does not run axially concentric and the face does not run true either. I could put my flange in the lathe and true it, but I'd rather ship it out to them and have it all done as an assembly. Making these one-piece shafts work properly, over the long-term, is a pretty big lift.

MB

I’m knocking on wood with my Steeda 1 piece which I believe is made by Spicer. It’s super smooth, but it could have very easily been something different, based on my experience and discoveries during the install. Some of this may also carry over to other manufacturers of driveshafts as well. Read about it in the thread below, starting with post #123.

https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/th...018-6-speed-manual-transmission.184061/page-9

 

[RAVAGE88]

I’m knocking on wood with my Steeda 1 piece which I believe is made by Spicer. It’s super smooth, but it could have very easily been something different, based on my experience and discoveries during the install. Some of this may also carry over to other manufacturers of driveshafts as well. Read about it in the thread below, starting with post #123.

https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/th...018-6-speed-manual-transmission.184061/page-9

Yep, I read that thread and there are a number of other really good threads on M6G that @GregO pointed me toward as I was doing research and spending time under my car noting runout, angular offset, etc. I really wanted my Steeda shaft to work, because as it is, my car looks like Steeda threw up on it (every upgrade on my car is from Steeda), so in the beginning, I thought it had a good chance of working, which it did until I did a burn out. Problem is, there are inherent issues from Ford, which they "solved" with the two-piece, non-balanced shaft that a lot of us have worked hard to replace.

In my opinion, your Steeda shaft stands a far greater chance of being successful if:

• you use transmission spacers to deal with the angular offset
• either remove your current pinion flange (will need a new install kit), or purchase a new pinion flange kit (M-4851-M8A)
• take your Steeda shaft and pinion flange to a reputable drive shaft shop and have it balanced as an assembly. This means your shaft and pinion flange will be indexed properly, no different than the two-piece is now.
• Prior to balancing the assembly, the faces of the drive shaft flange and pinion flange will need to be trued perpendicularly to the axial centerline so these parts run true as a mated assembly.

Of course, this won't deal with the inability of the material used by Spicer to handle torsional loads, so to keep it all running true, you'll have to grandma the car around town.

MB

 

[shogun32]

Of course, this won't deal with the inability of the material used by Spicer to handle torsional loads, so to keep it all running true, you'll have to grandma the car around town

hmm, so just like 'heat-cycling tires', maybe we need 'pre-twisting' driveshafts with a rig to distort the material before balancing.

 

[RAVAGE88]

hmm, so just like 'heat-cycling tires', maybe we need 'pre-twisting' driveshafts with a rig to distort the material before balancing.

Dude!! You're on to something. The shafts should be twisted opposite the direction of rotation and heat set....it'll be like the cush drive on my Harley.

MB

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