GM is pulling back on EVs

[key01]

Oil companies screw you at present

More politics from you - going going ....

Yep. $4.20/gal here. We are getting hosed by big oil.

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[AZlb5.0]

Oil companies screw you at present

More politics from you - going going ....

Apparently you don’t get the jest of my post. But that’s ok we always talk past each other.

 

[GT 550]

you aren’t at the mercy of OPEC and their artificial control of the market.

You mean just like oil companies

Oil companies screw you at present

Indeed, this is what @Burkey was suggesting. I think we're all in agreement on here about cartels and collusion. If OPEC relevance diminishes and creates a vacuum, which nature abhors, an OPECesque entity wearing an electrification cape will take its place once the trend reaches a critical mass and there's enough leverage to commence exploitation. Companies are apex predators when it comes to this type of thing, and will eat you alive while being very good indeed at making themselves indispensable and promising you it's also in your best interests. Just don't look over your shoulder to 2023.

IMHO this situation has at its genesis the relentless outsourcing of services and mass sales of critical infrastructure, to the point that many national administrations of all persuasions are so removed from the art and science of strategic implementation that they've lost judgement. 'Leave it to the Captains of industry, they know best'...I think history has shown that's not perhaps the best approach.

 

[K4fxd]

Yep. $4.20/gal here. We are getting hosed by big oil.

Not really;
Look at, really look at what goes into the price of a gallon of gas. I can't spell it out because it is politics.

 

[sk47]

Apparently you don’t get the jest of my post. But that’s ok we always talk past each other.

Hello; He is losing in the discussion, so the politics angle.

 

[Gregs24]

Indeed, this is what @Burkey was suggesting. I think we're all in agreement on here about cartels and collusion. If OPEC relevance diminishes and creates a vacuum, which nature abhors, an OPECesque entity wearing an electrification cape will take its place once the trend reaches a critical mass and there's enough leverage to commence exploitation. Companies are apex predators when it comes to this type of thing, and will eat you alive while being very good indeed at making themselves indispensable and promising you it's also in your best interests. Just don't look over your shoulder to 2023.

IMHO this situation has at its genesis the relentless outsourcing of services and mass sales of critical infrastructure, to the point that many national administrations of all persuasions are so removed from the art and science of strategic implementation that they've lost judgement. 'Leave it to the Captains of industry, they know best'...I think history has shown that's not perhaps the best approach.

I'm not sure re oil v electricity. Oil is a global market supplied by a few countries so easily controlled. Electricity is produced locally in local markets. This is already clear when you compare our electricity prices with yours.

 

[Gregs24]

Apparently you don’t get the jest of my post. But that’s ok we always talk past each other.

Couldn't see beyond your political rant to see the jest of anything ....

 

[Tinpot]

Jest or gist ?

 

[GT 550]

Oil is a global market supplied by a few countries so easily controlled. Electricity is produced locally in local markets.

Yes, electricity is a local market supplied by a few companies so easily controlled.

Where or who it's controlled from/by is perhaps less important than the fact that such control can be leveraged once a critical mass dependency is established, and that large companies actively scan for such opportunities; if they can't achieve a monpoly/duopoly they'll settle for passive collusion among they key players. I'm also confident that vehicle manufacturers will do everything in their considerable power to control maintenance and repair rights to their advantage in order to avoid another uprising of independent garages.

As I wrote previously, the behaviour of local power companies during the recent electricity price crisis was notable. And local/small companies will generally sell out to multinationals/larger companies if the offer is one they can't refuse and they can legally accept it.

 

[Gregs24]

Yes, electricity is a local market supplied by a few companies so easily controlled.

Where or who it's controlled from/by is perhaps less important than the fact that such control can be leveraged once a critical mass dependency is established, and that large companies actively scan for such opportunities; if they can't achieve a monpoly/duopoly they'll settle for passive collusion among they key players. I'm also confident that vehicle manufacturers will do everything in their considerable power to control maintenance and repair rights to their advantage in order to avoid another uprising of independent garages.

As I wrote previously, the behaviour of local power companies during the recent electricity price crisis was notable. And local/small companies will generally sell out to multinationals/larger companies if the offer is one they can't refuse and they can legally accept it.

A few companies, one company, nationalised, +/- competition, government controlled/ capped/ supported, subsidies, taxation, investment in infrastructure are all different between countries, so a very different market structure. In the UK there are electricity tariffs that are MUCH cheaper for charging a car at certain times, some people have their own generating capacity at home as well, few have their own oil well!

Oil - one global price give or take controlled by a few countries / companies in a cartel. Other than taxation what you pay in Australia, US, UK, Outer Mongolia is largely the same for the base product

 

[Burkey]

You mean just like oil companies

My thoughts exactly.
The real difference being that the people can produce their own power. pretty hard to go drilling for oil on your own.

 

[Burkey]

Yes, electricity is a local market supplied by a few companies so easily controlled.

Where or who it's controlled from/by is perhaps less important than the fact that such control can be leveraged once a critical mass dependency is established, and that large companies actively scan for such opportunities; if they can't achieve a monpoly/duopoly they'll settle for passive collusion among they key players. I'm also confident that vehicle manufacturers will do everything in their considerable power to control maintenance and repair rights to their advantage in order to avoid another uprising of independent garages.

As I wrote previously, the behaviour of local power companies during the recent electricity price crisis was notable. And local/small companies will generally sell out to multinationals/larger companies if the offer is one they can't refuse and they can legally accept it.

The electricity companies already have that level of control. What are you going to do? Go back to candles? Run a generator? Seriously?

 

[Burkey]

Everytime the Saudis turn up the oil spicket gas prices come down. Let the oil companies drill and watch premium fall to 2 dollars a gallon.

The Saudi’s will do as they please, when they please. I’ll ask you again why anyone in their right mind would be grossly undercutting the market?

 

[Burkey]

"Mojave yuccas can be up to 2,500 years old, while the humble creosote bush can live for over 10,000 years. These plants also sequester carbon in the form of glomalin, a protein secreted around the fungal threads connected to the plants’ roots, thought to store a third of the world’s soil carbon. “By digging these plants up,” says Kobaly, “we are removing the most efficient carbon sequestration units on the planet – and releasing millennia of stored carbon back into the atmosphere. Meanwhile, the solar panels we are replacing them with have a lifespan of around 25 years.”"

Hello; It is an old story. People make decisions without an understanding. The "green" agenda has blinders on, seeing only what fits their goals. There is an old saying, there is no free lunch. They see fossil fuels as evil. They see solar panels as good. Thing turns out to be to meet the high energy demands of our current societies any sources will have an impact.

If you go into the game deciding it is better to damage one ecosystem over some other, at least you are being honest. Trying to hide behind solar and wind are better for the environment is a deception. Just picking an environment over another. One additional irony is many folks get upset about oil drilling in remote Alaskan wilderness such as the porcupine range where hardly anyone visits yet, much less lives on. Then are OK with messing up a desert ecosystem with people living nearby.

I grew up in the low hills of SE KY. It was strip mine country for decades. My home town, Middlesborough KY, is in a meteor crater. I got to watch the strip mines cut scars in the slopes surrounding my hometown as I grew up.

"...we are removing the most efficient carbon sequestration units on the planet – and releasing millennia of stored carbon back into the atmosphere."

It’s not about perfection. It never has been. It’s about finding the path of the least harm.
Whilst plants do sequester carbon, you ignore that NOT installing those solar panels means that VASTLY more carbon will be released into the atmosphere than the plants could ever hope to trap.
It’s not that complex.

The panels yield better results than the plants that are being removed. Simple.

We are “ok” (to use your words) with the latter because it is a permanent fixture, unlike the drilling process that requires new land periodically.
It’s not ideal. Nobody ever claimed it was. But, it is the lesser of two evils.

 

[Burkey]

Hello; He is losing in the discussion, so the politics angle.

Seriously? You think he’s losing? LMFAO.

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