GM is pulling back on EVs

[sk47]

Is that what he said or that what YOU heard? There may be a difference.

Hello; I have seen the replays televised several times. The man saying the words himself. Seems we had this exchange a while back. I even found and posted links to a couple of the videos. There are others I have actually seen as well. Not just from the one fellow. There is an anti-fossil fuel movement around the world. Surprised you are not aware.

Sponsored

 

[martinjlm]

Hello; Lots of words but still did not address the trade in value of an older BEV.

Make deal with you… I’ll answer that when you tell us all what mandates are forcing people to buy EVs in the US in 2023. Deal?









Just kidding. Even though you can’t answer mine, I’ll go ahead and answer yours.

https://insideevs.com/news/664961/carmax-2023-report-tesla-most-popular-pricey-used-evs/

 

[Burkey]

Hello; I have seen the replays televised several times. The man saying the words himself. Seems we had this exchange a while back. I even found and posted links to a couple of the videos. There are others I have actually seen as well. Not just from the one fellow. There is an anti-fossil fuel movement around the world. Surprised you are not aware.

I’ve heard him say things like “we need to transition away from fossil fuels” (I’m paraphrasing) but I’ve never heard him say something like “We are eventually going to ban the production and sale of fossil fuels”.

Is it possible that some clever editing might yield the results you’re looking for? Can you share a clip? For science, not politics.

 

[sk47]

Make deal with you… I’ll answer that when you tell us all what mandates are forcing people to buy EVs in the US in 2023. Deal?









Just kidding. Even though you can’t answer mine, I’ll go ahead and answer yours.

https://insideevs.com/news/664961/carmax-2023-report-tesla-most-popular-pricey-used-evs/

Hello; The link did not address the question. Answered some other questions.

 

[sk47]

I’ve heard him say things like “we need to transition away from fossil fuels” (I’m paraphrasing) but I’ve never heard him say something like “We are eventually going to ban the production and sale of fossil fuels”.

Is it possible that some clever editing might yield the results you’re looking for? Can you share a clip? For science, not politics.

Hello; As I said in a post just moments ago, Already did so with you months ago.

 

[martinjlm]

Hello; The link did not address the question. Answered some other questions.

Good point. The link talks about the price of used EVs. It does not answer the question of trade in value so I answered the wrong question. I do not have information on trade in value. Do you? I’d be interested in seeing what you find there.

 

[sk47]

The Pros and Cons of Buying a Used EV | Edmunds

“CON: Diminished resale value. Although the used car market is inflated these days, an electric vehicle typically depreciates at a faster rate than a gasoline equivalent. This is partly due to the available federal tax credit of up to $7,500. Why bother with a 1- to 2-year-old EV when you can buy a new one and get the tax credit? That said, there has been an improvement in EV depreciation in recent years. According to Edmunds data, the trade-in values of a 2-year-old Chevrolet Bolt and Nissan Leaf were approximately 52% and 32% of original MSRP, respectively, in 2019. But in 2022, a 2-year-old Bolt has a trade-in value of about 82% of its original MSRP, while the Leaf retains 65% of its MSRP. Still, our data shows that a gas-powered car retains its value better than an electric one, at least for now.”

Hello; Lots of information un this link. The above most directly addresses trade in value, but skips the main question which is about an older EV out of warranty.

“We'll spare you the chemistry lesson, but suffice it to say that as EV batteries age, you may see reduced performance and range. Driving in high temperatures, charging to maximum capacity, and draining the battery to a low voltage all take their toll. A degraded battery could mean that the EV won't reach the EPA-estimated range it once had. A useful rule of thumb, provided by the vehicle data company Geotab, is that an electric vehicle battery will degrade by 2.3% every year.”

Hello; that is two and three tents percent degrade every year.

“EVs and hybrids sold in California, and the states that have adopted this standard, must carry a minimum 10-year/150,000-mile warranty on their battery systems. As of this date, those states are Connecticut, Colorado, Delaware, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Vermont and Washington as well as the District of Columbia”

EVs Get Hammered on Residual Values, For Now (autoweek.com)

“The folks over at the Mach-E Club forum snagged some alleged documents from Ford to dealers saying dealers should expect about a 40 percent residual value on the new EV after three years and near 30 percent by year four. That puts a $60K Mach-E at about $18,000.”

The Truth Behind The Terrible Resale Value Of Electric Cars (slashgear.com)

“According to Car and Driver, EVs typically lose more than $5,700 per year, for the first five years on average, and will end up costing owners about $28,500 in five years. Compare this to a gas-powered car, which typically loses less than $3,200 per year or $16,000 over five years. “

“The third factor is battery capacity. EV batteries are notoriously for having a limited lifespan, which affects a car's value if it is not kept in pristine condition. Around the eight-year mark, most electric car batteries have degraded and need to be replaced with a new one, according to Forbes. Finally, changing technology has to be taken into account as well. Rapidly evolving EV technology makes the price go down and accelerates depreciation for older models, each time a new model is released. “

Hello; This last link is, so far, the closest to answering my question about out of warranty BEV's. Seems the issue is not being addressed by many just yet. Likely the best dodge will be not enough time passed yet. Maybe so. Thing is I have a 22 year old ICE still running well with no major problems. I bet some of you have even older ICE vehicles.
Unless some evidence shows up to the contrary my take is an old EV will be trash when it's battery pack fails. Also, when it falls below some recharge level, which is built into the base nature of the vehicles.

 

[sk47]

Read up a few posts you will find part of the reason posted by me.

The question has been answered many times, you just refuse to see it. There are no CURRENT mandates but they are close enough to cause people to fear the loss of ICE. Some will buy for this reason, I believe many that are returning to ICE are in this group.

Hello; A situation has arisen in my life. Several weeks ago mice got into the main fuse panel in tye engine compartment of my pickup. Chewed and shorted out the wire harness. Truck is in the shop with the outcome still in doubt. The pickup is my newest vehicle, a 2004 at around 19 years old. I kept it in good running condition.
I had not planned to shop for a new vehicle but am doing so. My car is a 2001. Time for something newer. As is oblivious I keep vehicles a long time. The mandates and anti-fossil fuel agendas have influenced my searches. I have been checking out hybrids and plug in hybrids the last few weeks. not quite ready to buy one yet but have been considering them. Mainly for the gas fuel economy aspect. I do expect the costs of gas to be pushed up so a high MPG base type car has been part of the thinking. For me at 75 the battery life likely will not be an issue. Anyway, the ICE engine should keep going.

I do have an offer out on a 2023 F-150. I looked at it last week. Left the dealer at $1,800 difference. They called yesterday morning and came down some. I gave a counter offer. Did not hear back today so i suspect they will stall a while to see if someone else comes in. I have been wondering if spending around $45,000 on a new truck is wise under the looming conditions. I know how i would looked at it just a few years ago. Only question would have been getting the ICE I want and trying for a deal.
Today i keep wondering if a splurge on a new ICE is the smart move. I do not doubt that some are determined to make ICE ownership more expensive. Maybe even make fuel hard to get. In away I will be OK if the Ford dealer does not take my offer. It is possible my old truck can be fixed and i can wait a while to check the winds.

I may even drive over and test a hybrid. That would be an irony if i actually bought one. I have stated before I am not against BEV's on principle. More I see too many flaws in the total package. Package being the EV's themselves, the grid and the cost of both. My ideal BEV costs maybe half or two thirds of an equivalent ICE.

 

[K4fxd]

My forecast has those people buying an ICE vehicle right up to the last moment.

No, because they will fear obsolescence. Gas will get harder to find and the value of the ICE car will fall much faster than normal.

Quote it for me from one of the many times it’s been answered.

I don't care enough to search it out.

Is that what he said or that what YOU heard?

It' is what he said. No more fossil fuels, he did not give a time line unless I missed that part.

 

[Mitch03]

I’m not going to muddy this thread, but wow. Just wow. Imagine being proven wrong repeatedly, and STILL refusing to concede defeat. Amazing. Truly amazing.

Yes, natural immunity probably lasts longer than vaccine induced immunity. Bring back polio. Forget vaccination. Natural immunity FTW.

You accuse others of wordsmithery and yet here you are, doing exactly that. The irony is sublime.

you and greg’s got smoked on this! I remember how you both reacted. Natural Immunity doesnt work…..and the vaccine allows you to not get the disease…..so you can’t spread it. How you were all WRONG!! So very WRONG! It’s amazing how you don’t recall things…..Then tried to guilt folks that didn’t get the jab that they didn’t care about their fellow man.

 

[Burkey]

you and greg’s got smoked on this! I remember how you both reacted. Natural Immunity doesnt work…..and the vaccine allows you to not get the disease…..so you can’t spread it. How you were all WRONG!! So very WRONG! It’s amazing how you don’t recall things…..Then tried to guilt folks that didn’t get the jab that they didn’t care about their fellow man.

That is NOT what was said. But, because you’re obviously an idiot, you probably didn’t understand what we were actually saying.
I’ll waste my time spelling it out for you so that you can misunderstand it once again.

We said that natural immunity required an infection to occur. We said that this was potentially risky for some people (refer to the millions of deaths as evidence). We also said that the acquired immunity appeared to depend on the severity of the infection. Meaning, that a low level infection generally inferred lower levels of immunity, whereas a vaccine is delivered in a very deliberate dosage that is controlled, unlike the immunity acquired from an uncontrolled infection “dosage”.
Are you still with me or is too complex already?

and the vaccine allows you to not get the disease

Not sure what you mean here. The vaccine offered some protection against infection (SARS-Cov—2) in the vaccinated person, a reduced likelihood of spreading the virus to others and a high level of protection against the disease it causes (Covid-19).
Do you remember when people were being hospitalised with the disease? Do you recall that it was largely a disease of the unvaccinated? I do. Perhaps you can better explain why less than 10% of the people hospitalised with covid were vaccinated at a time when more than half the population was vaccinated? Seems quite effective to me.

Facts don’t care about your feelings.

 

[Burkey]

It' is what he said. No more fossil fuels, he did not give a time line unless I missed that part.

Are you sure he wasn’t talking about government vehicles at the time? I’ve searched the webs high and low and can’t find him ever saying that they planned to outlaw fossil fuels. I can’t even find a link to an article that makes the connection.

 

[Burkey]

Hello; As I said in a post just moments ago, Already did so with you months ago.

Soooo…when ”the elites” (that you fear so much) are flying in their hypocritical private jets, what exactly will they be fuelling them with? Or is that a question that doesn’t fit the narrative yo guys have been spewing for months now?

 

[sk47]

That is NOT what was said. But, because you’re obviously an idiot, you probably didn’t understand what we were actually saying.
I’ll waste my time spelling it out for you so that you can misunderstand it once again.

We said that natural immunity required an infection to occur. We said that this was potentially risky for some people (refer to the millions of deaths as evidence). We also said that the acquired immunity appeared to depend on the severity of the infection. Meaning, that a low level infection generally inferred lower levels of immunity, whereas a vaccine is delivered in a very deliberate dosage that is controlled, unlike the immunity acquired from an uncontrolled infection “dosage”.
Are you still with me or is too complex already?


Not sure what you mean here. The vaccine offered some protection against infection (SARS-Cov—2) in the vaccinated person, a reduced likelihood of spreading the virus to others and a high level of protection against the disease it causes (Covid-19).
Do you remember when people were being hospitalised with the disease? Do you recall that it was largely a disease of the unvaccinated? I do. Perhaps you can better explain why less than 10% of the people hospitalised with covid were vaccinated at a time when more than half the population was vaccinated? Seems quite effective to me.

Facts don’t care about your feelings.

Hello; WOW. You dusted off several old and very debunked catch phrases from the Covid times. I guess the topper is the disease of the unvaccinated one. That has to be one of the funniest and saddest things you have written.
Funny because so many celebrities and prominent politicians who had as many as four of the shots later went on TV to tell us they had Covid. Then there were all the regular people who had the same experience.
Sad because you repeat this so long after the truth has been widely known. I think it was you who many times told me to "follow the science" and asked what I "do with new information"?

A good thing, a silver lining maybe, For those following this discussion. They can again see how slanted and underhanded you can be. If you somehow do not do this deliberately, it still erodes your credibility.

 

[sk47]

Soooo…when ”the elites” (that you fear so much) are flying in their hypocritical private jets, what exactly will they be fuelling them with? Or is that a question that doesn’t fit the narrative yo guys have been spewing for months now?

Hello; A good and fair question. I wonder about that one myself. So far I do not know of any bans on fossil fuel airplanes looming in the near future. Now that you ask, I do wonder if the coming fossil fuel vehicle bans could be stretched to include aircraft?

The question, to me, is less about the elites than it is about airplanes in general. Gotta figure elites will find a way to take care of themselves as they always have.

Circles back to a question i have posed several times before. Crude oil is refined into thousands of products. Many beyond products used as fuels. So many that have become necessary/integral for our day to day lives. I have a suspicion the cracking and refining of crude oil might be modified so less becomes liquid and gaseous fuel products. I know natural gas can be made into a motor oil as an example. But i wonder if all fuel type derivatives can be eliminated.
We need tars to pave the roads and lots of it. Will gasoline again become a throw away waste product as it was early on in history?

Sponsored