GM is pulling back on EVs

[martinjlm]

So, back to the thread topic..."GM is pulling back on EVs". I probably should've entered this discussion with this info. I did need to make certain that I am not breaking any embargoed information first, though.

Here's the expected timeline for GM EV introductions:

Brand​	Nameplate​	Description​	Timing​	Price range​
Cadillac​	Lyriq	Luxury Crossover	On sale now	$63 - 80k
Cadillac	Celestiq	Exotic Sedan	Sold out for 18 months	$300k +
BrightDrop	Zevo 600	Cargo Van	Delivering to fleet customers	< $50k
Chevrolet	Blazer EV	Mid Sized SUV	Summer 2023	$45 - 66k
Chevrolet	Equinox EV	Compact SUV	Fall 2023	$30 - 45k
Chevrolet	Silverado EV	Full Size Pick up	Spring 2023	$41.6k - 107k
GMC	Hummer EV SUV	Large SUV	Spring 2023	$70 - 110k
GMC	Sierra EV	Full Size Pick Up	Fall 2023	$45 - 110k
Buick	Electra (alphanumeric)	Compact CUV	Early 2024	Unknown
Buick	Electra (alphanumeric)	Mid Size CUV	Mid 2024	Unknown
Cadillac	Symboliq	Compact Lux Utility	Late 2024	Unknown
Cadillac	Escalade IQ	Large Lux Utility	Mid to Late 2024	Unknown
Cadillac	Unknown. btw Lyriq and Escalade	Full Size Lux Utility	Mid to Late 2024	Unknown
Honda	Prologue	Compact CUV built at GM plant	Mid 2024	Unknown
Cadillac	Escalade IQL	Longer version of Escalade IQ	Early 2025	Unknown
Chevrolet	Corvette EV	Midsize Performance CUV	Mid 2025	Unknown
Buick	Encore GX EV	Compact CUV	2026	Unknown
Cadillac	CT4/CT5 EV	Sedans	2026	Unknown
Chevrolet	Colorado EV	Mid Size Pick Up	2026	Unknown
GMC	Canyon EV	Mid Size Pick Up	2026	Unknown
Chevrolet	Express EV	Cargo Van	2026	Unknown
GMC	Savana EV	Cargo Van	2026	Unknown
Chevrolet	Tahoe EV	Full Size SUV	2026	Unknown
GMC	Yukon EV	Full Size SUV	2026	Unknown

Sponsored

 

[K4fxd]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/9-hour-drive-toyotas-electric-115000283.html

Just some more EV reality. Using heat reduces mileage by 50 in the Toyota suv

 

[martinjlm]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/9-hour-drive-toyotas-electric-115000283.html

Just some more EV reality. Using heat reduces mileage by 50 in the Toyota suv

See posts 1854 & 1855.

 

[K4fxd]

See posts 1854 & 1855.

The thing I take from this, backed up by my buddy who has a Tesla, is just because the car CAN charge at a high rate does not mean it always will.

Lets say you are trying to make a day trip. You need a charge, you are 4th in line....
One truth from the article is unless we vote out the zealots we will be stuck with BEV's.

 

[AZlb5.0]

The thing I take from this, backed up by my buddy who has a Tesla, is just because the car CAN charge at a high rate does not mean it always will.

Lets say you are trying to make a day trip. You need a charge, you are 4th in line....
One truth from the article is unless we vote out the zealots we will be stuck with BEV's.

Or not just that, what if you get to a charging station that’s full? Do you wait, or do you chance it going to another wasting more energy just to again have to wait. It’s not like a gas station you have to wait and majority of folks will not just charge for 15 min. They will charge long enough to make sure they don’t run out of charge.

What I foresee is, people with the means, paying to have access to better and quicker charging stations. All the while low income people are stuck. Nothing much will change.

 

[Gregs24]

Or not just that, what if you get to a charging station that’s full? Do you wait, or do you chance it going to another wasting more energy just to again have to wait. It’s not like a gas station you have to wait and majority of folks will not just charge for 15 min. They will charge long enough to make sure they don’t run out of charge.

What I foresee is, people with the means, paying to have access to better and quicker charging stations. All the while low income people are stuck. Nothing much will change.

Yet again the same old diatribe. You have already said all this.

Do you know what - you drive EV's in a different way to ICE cars. You don't drive from full till empty. You top up at home, you top up at the shops, you top up at the football stadium, or train station, or the myriad other places charge points are. All these top ups happen when you are doing something else so not 'waiting'.

Low income people can't afford petrol!

 

[sk47]

Yet again the same old diatribe. You have already said all this.

Do you know what - you drive EV's in a different way to ICE cars. You don't drive from full till empty. You top up at home, you top up at the shops, you top up at the football stadium, or train station, or the myriad other places charge points are. All these top ups happen when you are doing something else so not 'waiting'.

Low income people can't afford petrol!

Hello; Speaking of diatribe, this post is a prime example. Top up at home is fine for those who have a home where a charger is possible to have. Leaves out a lot of folks such as Joe on the fifth floor in an apartment building.
Top up at shops, stadiums, train stations or the "myriad" of other places is a cute sort of comment which ignores the reality of the situation. Myriad implies there are plenty of chargers when it just is not so.
Think I saw a story so far where one service station has switched over to EV chargers. Did not read the story so no comment. I may be wrong but if commercial EV charging is profitable such will happen and not need all the programs to push them.

The last bit is furthest out of touch of all. If low-income folks cannot afford petrol, they will not be able to use commercial chargers. Several posts with links about how it actually costs more to use commercial EV chargers than buying petrol/gasoline/diesel. Then there are the reasons for higher ICE fuel prices. Policies are being used to punish ICE owners as part of the "green" & BEV agendas. A case of crocodile tears when it comes to worry about the poor.

 

[martinjlm]

Probably the best thing to do is to speak with people who actually own and drive EVs now. They are no doubt the best measure of how easy it is or ain’t to charge when and where you need to. My best example would be one of my employees, married with a toddler, who lives in Texas but comes to Michigan on occasion. They have a Mach E and an ICE vehicle. This is how they have described their situation to me…

• On any typical day, the one that drives the Mach E is the one who gets to it first. Especially if the ICE is low on gas, because they both loathe going to the gas station.
• Most of their travel is in and around town, with occasional trips from Houston to Austin and back. Have to use some public charging for the return trip. No drama.
• On one occasion they drove from Texas to the Detroit area. Super nervous to begin the trip because they were worried about finding chargers.
• A bit irritated about the different payment processes for payment systems between the different charging networks. Thought Ford had worked that out, but not well enough apparently. I liken it to many years ago when I’d drive back and forth between the US and Canada often and some US stations wouldn’t take Canadian currency or vice versa. Credit cards did away with that issue.
• No real issues about how long it took to charge. They were able to fit other things into the time spent charging (food, bathroom, returning phone calls).
• At the end of the day, not as simple as with the ICE vehicle, but not the disaster they were told to anticipate. Not a big deal for something done only a couple times a year.

One of my coworkers is our key contact with automotive media and the PR teams of all the automakers. They get cars pushed to them by the automakers to drive and write reviews. Typically they also pass those cars around to experts within the company to experience and weigh in on the various systems. I’m usually one of their drivers for propulsion system evaluation. That’s why I have the GT350 in my profile pic. I had that assigned to me for a few days. Anyway, they were driving the Hummer EV and went to Chicago and back. Experienced the same issue with different payment protocols for different charging networks. Irritating but not debilitating. They also had an issue where the charger they went to use was completely blocked by someone who was using the charger next to it and that person refused to move enough to allow the Hummer to get into the spot. Combination of horrific parking by the other driver and the Hummer being absolutely humongous and not able to fit just anywhere.

As for Johnny on the 5th floor? That is exactly why I continue to advise people that ICE will be around for a few more decades. More has to change than just the car for that to resolve.

 

[K4fxd]

As for Johnny on the 5th floor? That is exactly why I continue to advise people that ICE will be around for a few more decades. More has to change than just the car for that to resolve.

Unfortunately we have government officials and bureaucrats who want to end ICE vehicles at any cost. They are implementing policies that will make it hard for anyone to drive an ICE car.

 

[AZlb5.0]

Probably the best thing to do is to speak with people who actually own and drive EVs now. They are no doubt the best measure of how easy it is or ain’t to charge when and where you need to. My best example would be one of my employees, married with a toddler, who lives in Texas but comes to Michigan on occasion. They have a Mach E and an ICE vehicle. This is how they have described their situation to me…

• On any typical day, the one that drives the Mach E is the one who gets to it first. Especially if the ICE is low on gas, because they both loathe going to the gas station.
• Most of their travel is in and around town, with occasional trips from Houston to Austin and back. Have to use some public charging for the return trip. No drama.
• On one occasion they drove from Texas to the Detroit area. Super nervous to begin the trip because they were worried about finding chargers.
• A bit irritated about the different payment processes for payment systems between the different charging networks. Thought Ford had worked that out, but not well enough apparently. I liken it to many years ago when I’d drive back and forth between the US and Canada often and some US stations wouldn’t take Canadian currency or vice versa. Credit cards did away with that issue.
• No real issues about how long it took to charge. They were able to fit other things into the time spent charging (food, bathroom, returning phone calls).
• At the end of the day, not as simple as with the ICE vehicle, but not the disaster they were told to anticipate. Not a big deal for something done only a couple times a year.

One of my coworkers is our key contact with automotive media and the PR teams of all the automakers. They get cars pushed to them by the automakers to drive and write reviews. Typically they also pass those cars around to experts within the company to experience and weigh in on the various systems. I’m usually one of their drivers for propulsion system evaluation. That’s why I have the GT350 in my profile pic. I had that assigned to me for a few days. Anyway, they were driving the Hummer EV and went to Chicago and back. Experienced the same issue with different payment protocols for different charging networks. Irritating but not debilitating. They also had an issue where the charger they went to use was completely blocked by someone who was using the charger next to it and that person refused to move enough to allow the Hummer to get into the spot. Combination of horrific parking by the other driver and the Hummer being absolutely humongous and not able to fit just anywhere.

As for Johnny on the 5th floor? That is exactly why I continue to advise people that ICE will be around for a few more decades. More has to change than just the car for that to resolve.

I think we have to take into consideration a few factors that will affect today and probably won’t be an issue later on which I hope.
1. There are not that many EVs on the road here in the US so there’s plenty of availability of space to charge.
2.Folks aren’t doing much long distance driving so again charging is not a problem.

I can only speak for me because what I see is the government slow rolling the upgrades on the electrical grid which will affect future EV users.There has to be a harder push, for a complete upgrade of the nations electrical grid at a faster pace and not just for future EV usage.

 

[martinjlm]

I think we have to take into consideration a few factors that will affect today and probably won’t be an issue later on which I hope.
1. There are not that many EVs on the road here in the US so there’s plenty of availability of space to charge.
2.Folks aren’t doing much long distance driving so again charging is not a problem.

I can only speak for me because what I see is the government slow rolling the upgrades on the electrical grid which will affect future EV users.There has to be a harder push, for a complete upgrade of the nations electrical grid at a faster pace and not just for future EV usage.

I think that your 2nd point is the most likely scenario. Except that the government is moving pretty strong on the grid. The Bilateral Infrastructure Bill targets $13B of the bill’s total $62B directly for upgrading the electrical grid.

People will continue to do some long distance driving as the charging infrastructure builds up along the Interstate network.

 

[K4fxd]

Except that the government is moving pretty strong on the grid.

Except we are not upgrading the grid. My numbers may not be exact it's from what I remember.

I believe it is in Utah or Nevada. They want to shutter a 1800 mega watt coal plant and replace it with a 800 mega watt plant. This plant supplies power to the whole western grid, which doesn't have enough capacity as it is.

I don't call this upgrading.

 

[K4fxd]

https://www.power-eng.com/coal/utah-s-largest-coal-plant-to-close-convert-by-2025/
Much of the 1,800-MW Intermountain Power Plant near Delta, Utah, will be converted to 1,200 MW of natural gas generation, the Intermountain Power Agency announced. The conversion is expected as early as late 2019.


Intermountain Power Plant currently sells much of its power to southern California, though California regulations prohibit the purchase of coal-generated electricity when existing contracts expire.

Can't make this crap up.

 

[martinjlm]

https://www.power-eng.com/coal/utah-s-largest-coal-plant-to-close-convert-by-2025/
Much of the 1,800-MW Intermountain Power Plant near Delta, Utah, will be converted to 1,200 MW of natural gas generation, the Intermountain Power Agency announced. The conversion is expected as early as late 2019.


Intermountain Power Plant currently sells much of its power to southern California, though California regulations prohibit the purchase of coal-generated electricity when existing contracts expire.

Can't make this crap up.

That’s one instance, not the entire country. For all we know there’s a plan to add another station and subdivide the coverage area. Your information is likely very accurate but it could also possibly be incomplete information. The $13B is apportioned out to the states for each state to determine how best to use it to improve their grids.

Re-reading your post, it looks like Utah may be accepting the idea that their energy demands will drop when they are no longer selling electricity to California and assess that declining from 1,800 MW to 1,200 MW fits their new demand picture..

 

[sk47]

Except we are not upgrading the grid. My numbers may not be exact it's from what I remember.

I believe it is in Utah or Nevada. They want to shutter a 1800 mega watt coal plant and replace it with a 800 mega watt plant. This plant supplies power to the whole western grid, which doesn't have enough capacity as it is.

I don't call this upgrading.

https://www.power-eng.com/coal/utah-s-largest-coal-plant-to-close-convert-by-2025/
Much of the 1,800-MW Intermountain Power Plant near Delta, Utah, will be converted to 1,200 MW of natural gas generation, the Intermountain Power Agency announced. The conversion is expected as early as late 2019.


Intermountain Power Plant currently sells much of its power to southern California, though California regulations prohibit the purchase of coal-generated electricity when existing contracts expire.

Can't make this crap up.

Hello; Guess we need to keep in mind that definitions can be fluid anymore. For me and perhaps you to upgrade a power plant ought to mean being able to produce more power. For others it may mean something different. Emitting less carbon while reducing output might fit the word "upgrade".

Saw just days ago about Germany closing down the last nuclear plant. I think it was nuclear. Could have been coal. For the purpose of this post only it does not matter. My point being similar to what I think yours is. That being the closing of plants that make good amounts of power (electricity) when demand is bound to increase.
How can the demand not increase with more and more BEV's envisioned to replace ICE? The way I see it is the units of energy we use moving ICE's around will be replaced with even greater units of electric energy to move the BEV's that replace them. Has to be more energy because the BEV's are much heavier due to the large battery packs.

I get why the champions cheer the news of a coal or nuclear plant closing down. The propaganda has tainted the emissions of a coal plant. I guess to them having less electricity than needed is better than having enough. I do get it about coal because the smokestacks are called too dirty.
Nuclear is not quite so clear cut. Among the least emissions of all or close to it. I get it tho as nuclear scares me much more that Co2. The war in Ukraine perhaps the better example with fighting going on at a nuclear plant.

Sponsored