GM is pulling back on EVs

[Gregs24]

Ok, so let’s re-rack the discussion…

There are two types of zero emissions vehicles. The way they operate is to use electric motors to turn the wheels. The difference between the two is where the energy to power the motors originates.

For Battery Electric Vehicles (BEV), the energy comes from a battery. The energy stored in the battery comes from the electricity grid (your house, an EV Charging station). When the motor runs in reverse (deceleration events) it is a generator that puts energy back into the battery.

For Fuel Cell Electric Vehicles (FCEV), the energy comes from a battery. The energy stored in the battery comes from chemical reactions in an on-board fuel stack that is fueled by hydrogen. When the motor runs in reverse (deceleration events) it is a generator that puts energy back into the battery.

There is a 3rd category that is considered Partial Zero Emission Vehicles (P-ZEV). Plug-in Hybrid Electric Vehicles (PHEV). For PHEVs, the energy comes primarily from the battery. In some instances the vehicle is not powered by electric motors, but directly from an ICE. The battery gets its energy from a combination of the grid from plugging it in, regeneration from running the motor in reverse as a generator, and the ICE. Some of the ICE ban states make provision for PHEVs which can run an extended amount of time with the ICE turned off.

So, between the plug that is used in the BEV and PHEV, and the fuel stack that is used in the FCEV, which device are you suggesting replacing and what would you replace it with? Keep in mind that like it or not, zero emissions is the goal. How do you get there?

This was explained to him over a year ago - you will be waiting a long time (eternity) for an answer

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[martinjlm]

Ok. So it ok to have emissions as long as it is not from the vehicle itself. Gotcha.


You can say the sky is purple, don't make it so.

Didn't a former administration pack GM with radical green agenda people?
This is all top down.

Super-freakin’ laughable. Who is the leadership of GM?

Mary Barra. CEO. Been with the company since starting as a college co-op. i was a year ahead of her at the same school, same co-op program (GMI, now Kettering). So I guess we could both be government plants.

Mark Reuss. GM President. Lifetime GMer. Super track rat. His dad was also a GM C-Suite Exec. I actually worked under his dad (Lloyd Reuss) when Lloyd was Chief Engineer at Buick. Funny story about how he could have fired me my first week on the job. I’ll detail it when this thread slows down.

Gerald Johnson. Head of Global Manufacturing. Was in my class at GMI, so yeah, maybe he’s a government plant like Mary and me. He’ll lead GM UAW and Unafor negotiations. No doubt he’ll be taking his cues from the government (<— extreme sarcasm for those who don’t know me that well)

Seriously…this stuff is a Google away.

IF the car companies rolled out BEV's at a rate that infrastructure and technology could keep up with, I'm sure they would get adopted by many. Fix all the someday's SK47 keeps bringing up. Then phase out ICE if demand slows.

Mandates and deadlines are not needed if it really is a better mousetrap.

The world will not end if we use gasoline and diesel for the next 100 years. By then something better than batteries will come along.

Companies are going to do what best fits their strategic and financial interests and delivers the best return for shareholders. Period. So the major automakers are broadcasting loudly to automotive suppliers, charging network providers, power generation companies, et cetera “Here’s where we intend to be in 2035. If you want a piece of the action you need to plan accordingly.” And they are. Suppliers, charging suppliers, state and local governments, power companies, all buy our vehicle and powertrain forecasts and consulting services so that they can have a view of the specific products the automakers are going to produce where and when and so that they can set their own strategies and be prepared.

 

[AZlb5.0]

@martinjlm
Question what would be more cost effective. Putting in new gas station storage tanks for E or upgrading the current storage tanks for E.

 

[Gregs24]

Fun fact diesel is the most efficient form of fuel. It Carrie’s 38 kWh of energy, which is 27 times that if ion batteries. Who knew

OK another 'fun fact' apart from learning to spell!

Have you even considered efficiency? You ignored my last question, how about trying to answer this one? What is the efficiency of a diesel engine v battery electric vehicle?

Come on 'fun fact' brain box - give it a go!

 

[Gregs24]

Wait what???? The government controlling even where we live and how far we can travel? Do you need my tinfoil hat, oh wait everything we talk about has come to fruition.

No only YOU

 

[K4fxd]

Companies are going to do what best fits their strategic and financial interests and delivers the best return for shareholders. Period.

Just a quick google away Ford EV profit.


But it said it still expects EVs to start making money soon, going from a 40% operating loss margin last year, when it sold about 96,000 EVs, bringing in $5.3 billion in revenue, to about an 8% profit margin by the end of 2026.Mar 23, 2023

 

[Gregs24]

Oh wait another non important person trying to make me feel bad. Let me check my GA* meter.

just as I thought.
Maybe check that list you quoted and see if you made the cut too.

We don't need to - you do it all by yourself

 

[Gregs24]

You know they could have made E85 out of sugarcane instead of corn. Sugarcane is so abundant in Latin American countries. A very cheap crop and The cleanest form of in tank fuel. But they chose not to. Why? Because that means people would still have freedom of movement. Electric cars are going to bring a new form of control over people and travel unheard of. There are people still thinking that governments along with power plants won’t collude to control your ability to charge your vehicle/travel if they don’t like something you say. Those same people will advocate for it because you know muy environment.

Now come on - you have already had posts deleted for your whacky comments - it will happen again if you keep on down this track. Remember?

 

[martinjlm]

@martinjlm
Question what would be more cost effective. Putting in new gas station storage tanks for E or upgrading the current storage tanks for E.

From what I understand about Evap rates of E10 vs E85, E10 tanks would have to be replaced to go to E85 or E100. Not sure if E85 tanks would have to be replaced to go to E100. Could be that they’re already produced to that spec.

 

[Gregs24]

This part is true. Brazil in particular, is one of the larger automotive markets and if you are not producing vehicles that run on sugarcane based E100, you are not selling vehicles. Know what my team is studying for Brazil now? Timing and supply base requirements to produce electric vehicles. Why? Even though E100 has the cleanest emissions of known internal combustion powertrains, combustion still = emissions and that ain’t zero.
Sorry…gotta say it..this is just straight up whackado. So whatever this larger conspiracy is it reaches through several of the 50 states, the Federal Government, GM leadership as a puppet of the Federal Government and now the entire economy of Brazil. Ok.

Crosses the Atlantic too apparently

 

[K4fxd]

GM banking on our tax dollars to make a profit

DETROIT, Nov 17 (Reuters) - General Motors Co (GM.N) expects its electric vehicles will make money in 2025, with recently enacted federal subsidies plugging the profitability gap between EVs and GM's combustion fleet, Chief Executive Mary Barra said Thursday.

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/gm-sees-profitable-evs-by-2025-2022-11-17/

 

[AZlb5.0]

From what I understand about Evap rates of E10 vs E85, E10 tanks would have to be replaced to go to E85 or E100. Not sure if E85 tanks would have to be replaced to go to E100. Could be that they’re already produced to that spec.

I’m sure that the E85 could handle E100. If anything with a small tweak but agree that the E10 tanks would have to be replaced all together. Also the risk of contamination.

 

[martinjlm]

Fun fact diesel is the most efficient form of fuel. It Carrie’s 38 kWh of energy, which is 27 times that if ion batteries. Who knew

Fun maybe…fact? Nope. Not even close. Gasoline engines deliver approximately 20-25% thermal efficiency. The most efficient engines from Toyota and Mazda deliver about 41% efficiency. Diesel engines are typically in the 40-45% efficiency range. Electricity as A fuel in vehicles in in the low to mid 90% range. Can be even higher with aggressive regen.

 

[martinjlm]

Fun fact diesel is the most efficient form of fuel. It Carrie’s 38 kWh of energy, which is 27 times that if ion batteries. Who knew

Fun maybe…fact? Nope. Not even close. Gasoline engines deliver approximately 20-25% thermal efficiency. The most efficient engines from Toyota and Mazda deliver about 41% efficiency. Diesel engines are typically in the 40-45% efficiency range. Electricity as A fuel in vehicles in in the low to mid 90% range. Can be even higher with aggressive regen.

 

[Gregs24]

Fun maybe…fact? Nope. Not even close. Gasoline engines deliver approximately 20-25% thermal efficiency. The most efficient engines from Toyota and Mazda deliver about 41% efficiency. Diesel engines are typically in the 40-45% efficiency range. Electricity as A fuel in vehicles in in the low to mid 90% range. Can be even higher with aggressive regen.

Wait for the silence of @AZlb5.0 who is incapable of admitting he is wrong

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