Oil pan bolts backing out...?

[snakeyes]

So I have a friend who just had his engine built, and it also has a ProCharger D1 kit on it. The shop finished the work and he picked up his car. not even a 100 miles on it and oil filling up the skid plate area. Took it over here we threw it up on the lift and four driver side oil pan bolts were completely MISSING.

Called the builder and his explanation was " The vibration of the VooDoo engine, combined with the ProCharger unit caused the oil pan bolts to back out, and fall out".

Anyone believe that ...? Come on really ....???

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[Bobn57]

So I have a friend who just had his engine built, and it also has a ProCharger D1 kit on it. The shop finished the work and he picked up his car. not even a 100 miles on it and oil filling up the skid plate area. Took it over here we threw it up on the lift and four driver side oil pan bolts were completely MISSING.

Called the builder and his explanation was " The vibration of the VooDoo engine, combined with the ProCharger unit caused the oil pan bolts to back out, and fall out".

Anyone believe that ...? Come on really ....???

Is his a 350? Found this older thread...
https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/gt350-oil-pan-torque-specs.80793/

 

[sk47]

Hello; Back in 1970 I had an Opel Rally Cadet sold thru GM in the states. Not a great car is some ways. One problem was the bolts would work loose. I think the engine vibrations had something to do with it. Finally traced a drivability problem to lose carb screws. After that i would check most every nut or screw often.
Even had the ammeter gauge cause a starting and rough running condition. The nut holding the wire terminal had worked lose.
This was before i knew of blue Loctite (maybe before it was invented?) Anyway, I use blue Loctite on lots of fittings anymore. Do not use red on most things. Red is much harder to loosen. There is an orange out now which i have not yet used. It is supposed to be similar to red but is supposed to be easier to remove the fitting.

Sounds like the shop did not tighten the bolts to the oil pans properly.

 

[Bobn57]

Hello; Back in 1970 I had an Opel Rally Cadet sold thru GM in the states. Not a great car is some ways. One problem was the bolts would work loose. I think the engine vibrations had something to do with it. Finally traced a drivability problem to lose carb screws. After that i would check most every nut or screw often.
Even had the ammeter gauge cause a starting and rough running condition. The nut holding the wire terminal had worked lose.
This was before i knew of blue Loctite (maybe before it was invented?) Anyway, I use blue Loctite on lots of fittings anymore. Do not use red on most things. Red is much harder to loosen. There is an orange out now which i have not yet used. It is supposed to be similar to red but is supposed to be easier to remove the fitting.

Sounds like the shop did not tighten the bolts to the oil pans properly.

yep...link above shows a very specific tightening and torque sequence as well as time limit for the gasket material.

 

[Slamdcoop0428]

Sounds like they never put them in. Or forgot to tighten them down. I call BS. I had my oil pan off to do my OPG’s at home and haven’t had one bolt come loose yet.

 

[dem00n]

So I have a friend who just had his engine built, and it also has a ProCharger D1 kit on it. The shop finished the work and he picked up his car. not even a 100 miles on it and oil filling up the skid plate area. Took it over here we threw it up on the lift and four driver side oil pan bolts were completely MISSING.

Called the builder and his explanation was " The vibration of the VooDoo engine, combined with the ProCharger unit caused the oil pan bolts to back out, and fall out".

Anyone believe that ...? Come on really ....???

Actually I do believe it. Talking to the guys from Ford Performance at PRI last weekend, the GT350 produces oddball vibrations due to the FPC. The GT4 guys had numerous things come loose and break when they were running stiffer than OEM engine mounts. A procharger can mess with the harmonics of an engine and result in...issues.

 

[honeybadger]

I’ve had just about every exterior bolt on mine try to back out. Just found a few on the front engine cover a couple weeks back. I’ve definitely had issues with the oil pan as well

 

[Slamdcoop0428]

Guess we should all be checking every engine bolt now at or under 100 miles intervals..

 

[Rapid Red]

Guess we should all be checking every engine bolt now at or under 100 miles intervals..

Make's ya wonder doesn't it ? I think I'm a bit surprised and having a hard time accepting the concept. Fasteners having been torqued, are loosing caused by internal harmonics.

@ the OP

Did you by chance ask Mr Engine builder when he was going to tell you this little tid bit ?

 

[Slamdcoop0428]

No I don’t think about it LOL I’m at almost 9000 miles and zing mine to 8800 and haven’t had anything come loose. When I did my OPG’s every bolt i touched was tight.

 

[CANTWN4LSN]

If the bolts backed out, wouldn't they be in the pool of oil in the NeverNeverland under the engine or am I not understanding this correctly?

 

[snakeyes]

Just to clarify -

the engine was built (NOT MY ENGINE) friends engine - and put back into the sled, then in less then 100 miles (after finding oil in his skid plate and on garage floor) he investigated and found the bolts were gone disappeared (you would think if they fell out that they would have been found on or in the skid plate area) ...? But the engine builders explanation was - " They must have backed out " due to vibration...

My explanation is - BULLSHIT - the dude forgot to put the F'ing bolts back in on re-install, I don't give a Rat's Ass what he says - maybe after a couple thousand miles I might buy that BS excuse if they forgot to lock-tight the bolts and torque them - but not after less than a 100 miles...

Gist of the story is: Engine builder is a F'ing Liar ...

 

[honeybadger]

Here's my experience with more context:

I didn't have 90% of these problems before I took things apart for the first time. If your car is still "as it was delivered from the factory," I don't think you'll see these issues. The factory loctite, torquing, and the cleanliness of brand new parts yield a very strong, reliable bond.

On the other hand, once you've opened stuff up, you introduce some new variables that can lead to the bolts backing out--contamination that prevents the loctite from working correctly, slightly off torque values, less effective loctite, etc. If you've taken stuff apart, especially on the engine, I'd suggest re-torquing things periodically.

Now, some will draw the natural conclusion that the reason they're backing out AFTER things have been messed with is because the person re-installing the parts doesn't re-install correctly (i.e. new bolts, cleaning threads, proper torque values, etc.). That very likely contributes in many cases, but I can also tell you with 100% it sometimes just doesn't matter. When I switched out my OEM header studs for bolts, I started to have issues with them backing out - no matter how much I torqued them, cleaned them, and locked them in with nordlock washers. The FPC just backs them out, I've had oil pick up tubes back out and break, balancer bolts loosen, oil pan bolts back out, etc. The number one for me is the bolt that holds the coil packs in. I've lost 4-5 entirely and have to re-tighten every track day because I find 1 or 2 have loosened.

Not saying the builder is right that they backed out and he didn't forget to install (or installed them incorrectly), but I also wouldn't be surprised if they did vibrate loose.

 

[Slamdcoop0428]

Here's my experience with more context:

I didn't have 90% of these problems before I took things apart for the first time. If your car is still "as it was delivered from the factory," I don't think you'll see these issues. The factory loctite, torquing, and the cleanliness of brand new parts yield a very strong, reliable bond.

On the other hand, once you've opened stuff up, you introduce some new variables that can lead to the bolts backing out--contamination that prevents the loctite from working correctly, slightly off torque values, less effective loctite, etc. If you've taken stuff apart, especially on the engine, I'd suggest re-torquing things periodically.

Now, some will draw the natural conclusion that the reason they're backing out AFTER things have been messed with is because the person re-installing the parts doesn't re-install correctly (i.e. new bolts, cleaning threads, proper torque values, etc.). That very likely contributes in many cases, but I can also tell you with 100% it sometimes just doesn't matter. When I switched out my OEM header studs for bolts, I started to have issues with them backing out - no matter how much I torqued them, cleaned them, and locked them in with nordlock washers. The FPC just backs them out, I've had oil pick up tubes back out and break, balancer bolts loosen, oil pan bolts back out, etc. The number one for me is the bolt that holds the coil packs in. I've lost 4-5 entirely and have to re-tighten every track day because I find 1 or 2 have loosened.

Not saying the builder is right that they backed out and he didn't forget to install (or installed them incorrectly), but I also wouldn't be surprised if they did vibrate loose.

Timing cover bolts , oil pan bolts, coil bolts, water pump bolts, crank bolt, valve cover bolts don’t have thread locker from the factory.

 

[honeybadger]

Timing cover bolts , oil pan bolts, coil bolts, water pump bolts, crank bolt, valve cover bolts don’t have thread locker from the factory.

didn’t say they did…

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