Science is now cancelled? [USERS NOW BANNED FOR POLITICS]

[Burkey]

Hello; well it seems the natural immunity is outlasting vaccine immunity as of now. So far the measures of natural immunity are showing it is still good. Since many had the covid many months before the shots were around and a third shot is being recommended by some.

My take is the natural immunity will have eyes on it for some time. If it somehow does something odd and takes an unexpected nose dive we will be told. I do not know that natural immunity will last for years any more than you know it will not. Such is to be determined.

My guess, and only a guess, is natural immunity will last a good long time. The vaccine immunity should as well if it actually causes a true immune system response which is what I have been finding so far.

Thank you, that’s a much better response.

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[GT Pony]

I will try again to refute your boneheaded claim that people should try to get infected with covid just to get an immune response.

LoL, you obviously don't understand how sarcasm is used to make a point. Go back and read what you said and what I said as a response while thinking about sarcasm. I'm sure others reading it get it.

The thing is an unvaccinated person who gets infected might get very sick. Might even die. No doubt about that. For most age groups under 55 or so the odds are very god they will not get bad sick. Over 99% recover with most doing ok.
There are to be sure some who do get very sick. Even the very young. The story seems to be that if you are fat or have some comorbidities the risk from an infection goes way up. It seems some people have decided to risk an infection over a shot. Not my issue, I figured I was at risk enough to take a chance on the shots.

Good that you did, but as mentioned earlier 98% of your posts in this thread are typically negatve towards the vaccine, along the lines of an anti-vaxxer mentality. Very strange. You getting a booster? You know why a booster is recommended for certain people (over 65 for now) regardless if they've had Covid or not? It does have to do with low levels of anti-bodies, so if the level of anti-bodies didn't matter then there wouldn't be a need for a booster shot. Booster shots are nothing new with vaccines, and booster shots exist for the same reason - to ping the immune system again to increase the level of anti-bodies.

 

[K4fxd]

Looks like CJ left since the science disproves his theories.,

 

[K4fxd]

Booster shots are nothing new with vaccines, and booster shots exist for the same reason - to ping the immune system again to increase the level of anti-bodies.

No, booster shots are given to boost the memory cells.

It is very few vaccines that need it.

 

[GT Pony]

For some clarity about “lifelong” immunity.

This was written in August of 2020. Note that the author says that the virus isn’t mutating quickly….
Fast forward a year and the results are a little different.

https://www.livescience.com/why-lifelong-immunity.html

That linked article was very good and should be read by everyone.

Did you see the part where some people who had Covid with mild symtoms didn't even have any detectable anti-bodies. Seems those type of people might get a false sense of security that their immune system could take on any viral load of any future variant just because they already had Covid.

 

[K4fxd]

Did you see the part where some people who had Covid with mild symtoms didn't even have any detectable anti-bodies.

Grasping at straws, just admit it, recovering from the covid is at least as good as getting the jab.

 

[GT Pony]

Grasping at straws, just admit it, recovering from the covid is at least as good as getting the jab.

LoL, after you catch the delta variant maybe you can give us an update.

 

[GT Pony]

No, booster shots are given to boost the memory cells.

It is very few vaccines that need it.

A booster causes antibody making B cells to multiply, elevating the levels of antibodies against the pathogen once more. So like I said, the end result is more antibodies being produced by pinging the immune system again.

There are plenty of vaccines that require more than 1 shot and often a booster shot, list near end of link. You'd think the Covid booster was the first one ever invented or recommend, lol.

https://www.passporthealthusa.com/2016/06/why-boosters-are-important/

 

[sk47]

Hello; At this time I do not plan to take a booster shot. At 74 I may qualify, but have not checked. I have some personal reasons, a worldview reason and an applied science reason.

I was quite sick after the second shot and was knocked out for two days. I wound up with one of the predicted side effects, a fever blister (herpes virus) and a possible but not confirmed additional side effect(nerve issue).
My look into the way the shots work seem to indicate a basic immune system response is part of the deal. That I was so very sick after the second shot is a clue my immune system had a strong response. This is the applied science reason. A shot with the same formulation as the ones I already had makes no sense. It appears the best I can get is another short term increase in antibodies. If I had a good immune reaction my body can make more antibodies if needed.

The world view reason is as long as I have sufficient protection I do not see my having a third dose when so many around the world have not yet had even one.

 

[sk47]

No, booster shots are given to boost the memory cells.

It is very few vaccines that need it.

Hello; I have thought about this. Do you think some on here are confusing the flu shots criteria with the planned covid booster?
I suspect there may be confusion on two points with the flu shots. First is that the flu shots are not 100% each season. Often down around 50%. The reason for the low efficiency is different for the flu shots. The flu vaccine takes a while to make in volume so they have to decide ahead of the season which of the several flu variants will be a problem. They often guess wrong and a flu variant starts to spread which the shot was not made to match. ( note- the flu shots often are made to deal with a few flu variants, so if they have the shot set for three expected variants it will work for those three. The problem happens when a fourth and unexpected variant comes along.)
The other possible point of confusion may be that a new round of flu shots have to be made and given each year. Those are not booster shots in the same sense as I understand the proposed covid booster.
The yearly flu shots are to try to match an ever changing flu virus. Not the case with the covid booster as i understand thus far. Best I can find the covid booster will be the same formula as the first two shots I took back in March. My take is the covid booster will not be a changed formula in the same sense the flu shot is a new formula each year. Perhaps someone knows for sure and can straighten me out??

 

[sk47]

Fact check: False claim that COVID-19 vaccine ingredients and formulas have changed since rollout (msn.com)

Hello; looks like the covid shot formulas have not been changed at all. A legal issue with the emergency use it seems.

 

[CJJon]

Hello; If I were CJJon here is where I would make a cutting remark, but I am not him.

You are such a hypocrite. Always looking for a fight.

Again, you make claims based on biased opinion articles and your feelings and recollections from teaching high school science class back in the 70's. You then go looking for evidence to back them up.

When you find some evidence or study (that is not some opinion piece) then you latch onto it like you were the sly fox who was right all along.

That's akin to calling a broken clock accurate because it is correct twice a day.

 

[CJJon]

Looks like CJ left since the science disproves his theories.,

Another broken clock just looking for a fight.

 

[CJJon]

Cleveland Clinic: No need to vaccinate people who had COVID (wnd.com)

“Contradicting the claims of Dr. Anthony Fauci and the FDA, a study by the prestigious Cleveland Clinic concluded there is no need to vaccinate people who have been infected with the virus that causes COVID-19.”

“The finding aligned with a study published last month in Nature by researchers at the Washington University School of Medicine in St. Louis concluding that even mild or asymptomatic cases of COVID-19 can produce lasting immunity that would guard against repeated infections.”

“But the Cleveland Clinic study found no significant difference in COVID-19 incidence between previously infected and vaccinated participants.”

“Not a single incidence of SARS-CoV-2 infection was observed in previously infected participants with or without vaccination.”

“The Cleveland study monitored 52,238 employees of the clinic who each received two doses of the Pfizer/BioNTech or Moderna COVID-19 vaccine at an interval of 28 days. Among them, 5% had previous SARS-CoV-2 infection.”

“News-Medical.Net summed up the implications of the study.”"A practical and useful message would be to consider symptomatic COVID-19 to be as good as having received a vaccine, and that people who have had COVID-19 confirmed by a reliable laboratory test do not need the vaccine," the news site said.”

“That's also the conclusion of Yale University epidemiologist Dr. Harvey Risch.”
“He pointed WND to a massive study in Israel finding that people who had tested positive for the novel coronavirus in the previous three or more months had at least as much protection against new infection, hospitalization and death as vaccinated people.”
“"People become immune by surviving infection," argued Risch, professor of epidemiology in the Department of Epidemiology and Public Health at the Yale School of Public Health and Yale School of Medicine.”
“In an email to WND, he explained that serum antibodies and T-cell antibodies – the white blood cells that attack infections – demonstrate past history of infection.”
“Risch said the FDA is correct that antibodies from infection are not the same as post-vaccination antibodies. But this is irrelevant, he contended.”

“Dr. Marty Makary, a professor at Johns Hopkins University, believes that both immunity through vaccination and through infection are probably "life-long" and can be maintained without boosters.”
“"There is more data on natural immunity than there is on vaccinated immunity, because natural immunity has been around longer," Makary said in a recent interview with radio WMAL in Washington, D.C. "We are not seeing reinfections, and when they do happen, they’re rare. Their symptoms are mild or are asymptomatic."”

Good news: Mild COVID-19 induces lasting antibody protection – Washington University School of Medicine in St. Louis (wustl.edu)

“Months after recovering from mild cases of COVID-19, people still have immune cells in their body pumping out antibodies against the virus that causes COVID-19, according to a study from researchers at Washington University School of Medicine in St. Louis. Such cells could persist for a lifetime, churning out antibodies all the while.”

“The findings, published May 24 in the journal Nature, suggest that mild cases of COVID-19 leave those infected with lasting antibody protection and that repeated bouts of illness are likely to be uncommon.”

“Last fall, there were reports that antibodies wane quickly after infection with the virus that causes COVID-19, and mainstream media interpreted that to mean that immunity was not long-lived,” said senior author Ali Ellebedy, PhD, an associate professor of pathology & immunology, of medicine and of molecular microbiology. “But that’s a misinterpretation of the data. It’s normal for antibody levels to go down after acute infection, but they don’t go down to zero; they plateau. Here, we found antibody-producing cells in people 11 months after first symptoms. These cells will live and produce antibodies for the rest of people’s lives. That’s strong evidence for long-lasting immunity.”

“As expected, antibody levels in the blood of the COVID-19 participants dropped quickly in the first few months after infection and then mostly leveled off, with some antibodies detectable even 11 months after infection. Further, 15 of the 19 bone marrow samples from people who had had COVID-19 contained antibody-producing cells specifically targeting the virus that causes COVID-19. Such cells could still be found four months later in the five people who came back to provide a second bone-marrow sample. None of the 11 people who had never had COVID-19 had such antibody-producing cells in their bone marrow.”

Israeli study: Natural immunity gives better protection than COVID shot - Israel National News

“Natural immunity that develops after SARS-CoV-2 infection offers considerably better protection against the "Delta variant" than does two doses of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine, an Israeli study found.”

“According to Science Magazine, the study found that "never-infected people who were vaccinated in January and February were, in June, July, and the first half of August, six to 13 times more likely to get infected than unvaccinated people who were previously infected with the coronavirus."”

oOoops! This from the Cleveland clinic...emphasis mine,


Cleveland Clinic recommends those who are eligible receive the COVID-19 vaccine.

In June, we shared research that provided insight into how the immune system protects the body after a confirmed COVID-19 infection. The study followed Cleveland Clinic caregivers over five months as the vaccination process was beginning. The data showed that the vaccine was extremely effective in preventing COVID-19 infection. In addition, during the study, none of the employees who had confirmed positive PCR tests and remained unvaccinated were re-infected. It’s important to note that this study was conducted in late 2020 and early 2021, before the emergence of the Delta variant.

More research is needed. We do not know how long the immune system will protect itself against re-infection after COVID-19, as our study only looked at individuals over a five-month period, or how well-protected previously infected individuals are against variants. It is also important to keep in mind that this study was conducted in a population that was younger and healthier than the general population.

It is safe to receive the COVID-19 vaccine even if you have previously tested positive, and we recommend all those who are eligible receive it.

https://newsroom.clevelandclinic.or...ment-on-previous-covid-19-infection-research/

Interesting, huh?

 

[sk47]

You are such a hypocrite. Always looking for a fight.

Again, you make claims based on biased opinion articles and your feelings and recollections from teaching high school science class back in the 70's. You then go looking for evidence to back them up.

When you find some evidence or study (that is not some opinion piece) then you latch onto it like you were the sly fox who was right all along.

That's akin to calling a broken clock accurate because it is correct twice a day.

Hello; I actually taught AP Biology last in 2004. Not super recent to be sure, but not in the 70"s. I do use recollections for sure. Science understanding does change but some basic understandings do persist. My take is the natural immunity has some basic features understood for a long time. The understanding can change with new evidence if new evidence comes along. Are you saying there is new evidence about natural immunity which changes long held understanding?

I read a link just moments ago about natural immunity. There is a new to me idea in that link. Something like colds (rhinovirus) do not get a strong immune response because the body does not worry to much about upper respiratory infections. That was stated as a reason why we can get so many colds.
Very different from what I had learned which was we get a lots of colds because there are a large number of different cold virus.
I hope to learn more about this idea. On first read it does not make sense. Perhaps you can be of help?

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