The gripe thread (Mach 1 vs GT350, GT, etc)

[DEDXXXX]

inflated reports of unreliability and poor performance compared to the competition.

Right? I mean I had an SRT8, not particularly an autocross/track car. As a badass it was pretty reliable though. Is that the competition?

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[13GetThere]

Excuse me, but isn't that right across the hall from eternal prejudice and loathing?

 

[BabyPanza]

Despite being Mustangs all three are different cars, and they feel different driving them, in fact I was surprised at just how differently they all feel. A spec sheet doesn't always translate into feel and the realities of driving one, they certainly never reflect the realities of owning one. Don't get too hung up on the spec sheet. They each are excellent tools at filling their purposes, so you really should be buying one based on what you will actually end up using it for. I'm assuming this is daily driver, or car you will drive 80% of the time. New or very near new car purchase. Shelby little more used, noted....

GT350
The Shelby GT350 is the most track focused, to the point where I wouldn't want to drive it everyday in traffic on crap roads. The suspension is firm and the torque curves and power band are way more suited to track driving than street use. I would only get this car if I was tracking 5-6+ times a year and if I had a high tolerance for stiff ride, to me the GT350 would be the most fatiguing to drive on the street. Consumable and gas costs going to be higher on this bad boy too. After all its a one off engine design and performance masterpiece of FP 5.2L! Great to drive, a wonderful visceral sensory experience that looses a lot of luster on public roads on the daily. The reliability comes into play for me and my budget, this is different for everyone. If you don't track at all, I don't see a lot of value in the purchase, you are buying a track tool and not using it, that doesn't make sense. This is a track car you can drive home and look damn good doing it.

GT and GT PP
On the other end of the spectrum is the GT (including PP cars for which I will explain below). This model is best suited for daily driving and offers a good value IF you don't stack it with 50K in options, yes you can actually hit 50K now in options on the GT, this ends up being a poor value proposition. I wouldn't do this, if you are approaching near 50K on your purchase seriously look at the Mach 1 especially if you track at all. The GT has always been underequipped for track duty, including the PP cars. You NEED the diff cooler, nothing is worse than a whole track day ruined because you are pitting after two hot laps and you are just getting into the grove of things. This problem goes back to the S197 and the magazines even pointed it out, understand the mags are loathe to ever specifically call out a deficiency like that as harshly as they did. I hate this being the case but it is the truth PP GTs were never sufficiently equipped for tracking, even worse is the price on the PP option has increased steadily in price to a ridiculous level now, what is it 6K and no diff cooler? GT PP has got you covered on spirited driving , equipped with magneride and you got a more comfortable car. It could be placebo, but to me the M1 with magneride feels more complaint on bad pavement, perhaps the tuning really has evolved I don't know.
Finally the MT82D4 in the GT, the ratios are too tall IMO, the S197 had better ratios. Additionally the hit or miss QA/QC on the MT82 is a real thing, if you track, the Mach 1 is the way to go, real cooling plus the Tremec has better ratios for the street and is a better transmission. The aero goodies will probably help at track too. There was a time where the differential in price between the GT PP and the M1 would be very large and I could understand guys going GT, now if you get a PP car nowadays its going be within spitting distance pricewise of M1, you really have to weigh how much track time you will do for it to be worth upgrading, the M1 parts bin or not, is the better car than the GT or GT PP if you track, its more expensive but is a better value buy if tracking. It simply has the track endurance PPs don't, it has the rarity, and I think its more comfortable in "normal" mode than the GT PP I drove, plus the better ratio transmission. It consumes more gas though. Boil this down, regular GTs if you don't track but want the V8 and a damn cool fun car even in base form. PP if you do a lot of spirited driving, this is the worst "bang for buck" option now though since Ford raising price on PP cars. No matter what get magneride, worth every penny in my book.

Mach 1
"Parts bin special", people say it like a bad thing. Totally wrong way to look at it. Anyone in engineering knows its a great approach to take proven parts and modules and equip them on a car, especially a chassis near the end of its production run with kinks worked out. Think P51 Mustang fighter plane. A good low drag body and maneuverable airplane, a good base design to start with, then they paired it with the proven Rolls Royce Merlin engine (packard built versions in USA) and you had a real legend! The merlin provided better higher altitude performance that its original Allison engine was ill equipped for. The Merlin makes much better power across a wider spread of altitudes, and in air combat that little bit more made the difference.
Ford picked the right parts, this car is a fantastic blend of the livability of the GT, proven track parts, and long term engine reliability in the 5.0 Coyote. It may not have everything that people were hoping it would have, but when Ford said they wanted to make the most capable 5.0L Mustang, I think they met that goal. I have not track driven it yet. On the street it feels different than the other two cars, I'm really impressed by how comfortable it is, especially with cooled seats and (non recaro), and the magneride. It soaks up bumps superbly on shit pavement for this class of car. It doesn't beat you up like the Shelby will, and I could easily do many hours in this car without being tired or sore. If you want more performance you can dial it up with the hit of a switch. The difference between "normal" and "sport +" is noticeable immediately. This is a better car to drive on the street than the Shelby, more comfortable, less gas, and a more useful powerband, superb braking. This does not mean its better than the Shelby, just better for its purpose, a car you can drive everyday and then go to the track. I'm amazed the cars feel this different, some will say they really don't but I just straight disagree here, on some differences it isn't even that subtle, sure on some things its small, but its still different! The M1 was the right choice for me, glad I walked away on two Mustang GT PP deals, the Shelby was just too much car for me for daily use, amazing car but not for me based on how I would have to utilize it. Keep in mind I got the M1 for under MSRP.

Don't buy a car because of magazine measurable or a spec sheet, it doesn't always translate into more fun or a better car despite the measurables. Always remember the vast majority of us are not Randy Probst. Buy the one that will best fulfill YOUR purpose, not mine or anybody else's.

Good luck, have fun with it, and I hope your choice ends up being the right one for you!

Long post but I'm on a long boring 11hr shift.

First, great write up. Your thoughts and ideas are very well communicated.

I do disagree though on cost comparison of Premium GT to Mach. Premium Mach is $10k ($58.6k) more than Premium GT non-PP ($48.6k). I do understand your point if someone didn’t mind giving up the leather, the B&O and premium wheels on the M1, then compared to the loaded GT it’s a few thousand more. I guess like most things, value is in the eye of the beholder. Plus we want Premium.

 

[shogun32]

Plus we want Premium.

Nah, ford can't even spell premium so why pay them handsomely to still give you a sorry ass excuse? Same money spent elsewhere provides actual premium.

 

[BabyPanza]

Nah, ford can't even spell premium so why pay them handsomely to still give you a sorry ass excuse? Same money spent elsewhere provides actual premium.

For a Ford the new mustang interiors are pretty premium, compared to my Audi, well no, of course not . Plus that digital dash is up there with the Benz dash in looks and customization. A couple of months ago I honestly couldn’t have cared less about the Stang but hubby got me down to drive a Premium GT and I was in love. Great speed and performance, gorgeous exterior and a great Interior. Again, it’s not German, but then what is, unless it’s German?? As much as I love the Stang, wouldn’t in a million trade my Baby Panza Audi for it.

 

[Kermut]

First, great write up. Your thoughts and ideas are very well communicated.

I do disagree though on cost comparison of Premium GT to Mach. Premium Mach is $10k ($58.6k) more than Premium GT non-PP ($48.6k). I do understand your point if someone didn’t mind giving up the leather, the B&O and premium wheels on the M1, then compared to the loaded GT it’s a few thousand more. I guess like most things, value is in the eye of the beholder. Plus we want Premium.

Nah, ford can't even spell premium so why pay them handsomely to still give you a sorry ass excuse? Same money spent elsewhere provides actual premium.

Thanks! Not having been able to test drive the Mach has been a source of real frustration. Fortunately I think there is a dealer near me with one in so now I can try and beg for a test drive, though I wouldn't be at all surprised if they decline.

I hate to agree with shogun, but he's right- if you are buying a Mustang purely as a luxury car, you are better off buying an import for quality/interior finish. I'm very excited for my car, but that's because I'm used to driving my bumpy/visceral MX-5 and I want similar driving dynamics with a big V8. Comfort and interior finish are second to that.

 

[13GetThere]

Nah, ford can't even spell premium so why pay them handsomely to still give you a sorry ass excuse? Same money spent elsewhere provides actual premium.

Like where?

 

[BabyPanza]

Thanks! Not having been able to test drive the Mach has been a source of real frustration. Fortunately I think there is a dealer near me with one in so now I can try and beg for a test drive, though I wouldn't be at all surprised if they decline.

I hate to agree with shogun, but he's right- if you are buying a Mustang purely as a luxury car, you are better off buying an import for quality/interior finish. I'm very excited for my car, but that's because I'm used to driving my bumpy/visceral MX-5 and I want similar driving dynamics with a big V8. Comfort and interior finish are second to that.

Yes, see my response to shogun.

 

[luc]

The Mustang has never pretended to be a luxury vehicle and premium in marketing speaks only mean that the car has“better” features than the base one
I happens to prefer the base because it’s a track car and I don’t need heated/cooled seats or navigation and all other “ premium “ features
Obviously for someone that use it as a DD, it could be different

 

[RocketGuy3]

I know a lot of people here wouldn't care, but to me, one non-trivial advantage the Mach 1 has over the GT350 you didn't list is that, as a result of coming with the updated front end, it has LED headlights compared to the oldhat HIDs on the GT350.

It's a shame that the best things about the GT350 are also directly related to the worst things. That voodoo is everything that is right AND wrong with the car.

... OK the Shelby is also the most beautiful Mustang of my lifetime, but still. The Mach 1 isn't far behind in terms of either looks or sound IMO.

 

[Jimmy Dean]

I know a lot of people here wouldn't care, but to me, one non-trivial advantage the Mach 1 has over the GT350 you didn't list is that, as a result of coming with the updated front end, it has LED headlights compared to the oldhat HIDs on the GT350.

It's a shame that the best things about the GT350 are also directly related to the worst things. That voodoo is everything that is right AND wrong with the car.

... OK the Shelby is also the most beautiful Mustang of my lifetime, but still. The Mach 1 isn't far behind in terms of either looks or sound IMO.

I agree on everything. the Voodoo is the best and worst thing on the GT350. And it is by far the best looking mustang since 1972 imo. but the Mach 1 is not far behind. it does not quite exude the combination of grace and power then GT350 has, but it is close. And not as brutish as the GT500.

 

[RocketGuy3]

First, great write up. Your thoughts and ideas are very well communicated.

I do disagree though on cost comparison of Premium GT to Mach. Premium Mach is $10k ($58.6k) more than Premium GT non-PP ($48.6k). I do understand your point if someone didn’t mind giving up the leather, the B&O and premium wheels on the M1, then compared to the loaded GT it’s a few thousand more. I guess like most things, value is in the eye of the beholder. Plus we want Premium.

I'm confused about a couple things here. Why would you compare a non-PP to a Mach 1? If you need the leather in the Mach 1, then you need the PP in the GT Premium, right? Along with the magnetic ride and active exhaust. Secondly, are you adding the handling pack to the Mach 1? Otherwise that price seems higher than I'd expect.

 

[RocketGuy3]

Nah, ford can't even spell premium so why pay them handsomely to still give you a sorry ass excuse? Same money spent elsewhere provides actual premium.

As someone who has extensively owned, driven, and/or ridden in almost every mainstream luxury brand, I feel like I can confidently say that a Mustang Premium is an excellent level of luxury for the price and segment (call it coupes under $80K). While certain interior materials obviously can't hold up to a Lexus, the leather, overall interior comfort, and many tech features of Premium Stangs are about as good as most comparable imports.

I may not be a luxury "connoisseur", so there may be some things others would scoff at that I don't even notice. But I think if you get past the badge on a lot of imports, you will see that many differences are greatly overstated.

 

[luc]

As someone who has extensively owned, driven, and/or ridden in almost every mainstream luxury brand, I feel like I can confidently say that a Mustang Premium is an excellent level of luxury for the price and segment (call it coupes under $80K). While certain interior materials obviously can't hold up to a Lexus, the leather, overall interior comfort, and many tech features of Premium Stangs are about as good as most comparable imports.

I may not be a luxury "connoisseur", so there may be some things others would scoff at that I don't even notice. But I think if you get past the badge on a lot of imports, you will see that many differences are greatly overstated.

Luxury start with well aligned body panels and even gaps…
It’s totally fine for the Mustang not to be a luxury car, let’s no pretend that it is something that it is not…

 

[BabyPanza]

I'm confused about a couple things here. Why would you compare a non-PP to a Mach 1? If you need the leather in the Mach 1, then you need the PP in the GT Premium, right? Along with the magnetic ride and active exhaust. Secondly, are you adding the handling pack to the Mach 1? Otherwise that price seems higher than I'd expect.

Not really comparing them, just the price. I don’t really care about magnaride, just the Mach badge and the looks , but not enough to pay $10k more. And our GT will have active exhaust (see signature). And no didn’t do online build with handling pack. Premium Mach, Elite, automatic, upgraded wheels.

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