Science is now cancelled? [USERS NOW BANNED FOR POLITICS]

[CJJon]

Hello; During the pre shot days the stats for death rates were broken down two ways. One was for specific age groups and the other was for an overall average. My comment was that the overall average survival rate was at or over 99% which as best as I can recall from memory is correct.

What you have cited above is the rate for a specific age group of greater than 45 years of age, not the overall average. I stated in my recent post that for my age group the survival rate was 94.5%. I was 73 at the time and that makes my age group death rate over 5%. It has been known and understood from early on in the outbreak that the older people had the worst outcomes. Followed by those with specific co-morbidities.

Older people with co-morbidities such as myself were at the highest risk so I took a risk and had the shots. But even a survival rate of over 94% is good odds. I would like to have such a survival rate for any health problem that comes along.

My quoting a high survival rate does not translate to being callous about those who die any more than when you make allowances for the vaccine being less than 100% effective. I do not see how you can try to claim to have it both ways and be credible. I could be underhanded and claim that because you are a champion of the shots which are not 100%, that you do not care about the vaccinated who get covid and die, but will not do so.

The overall rate of survival is calculated for all age groups and was winding up being higher than for specific older age groups. I have not checked the age group stats in a few months so cannot say how the age group survival rates are now.

Egad the breakdown in logic here is dumbfounding.

Sponsored

 

[RPDBlueMoon]

If I, who am vaccinated against measles, walk into a room full of people with measles, I won't get sick and I won't spread it to others when I leave the room.

That cannot be said about the covid jab.

That's not true at all. You can still get measles if you are vaccinated, especially if you are in a room full of people with it. This is one of the reasons why schools districts were mandating the measles vaccine back in 2017-2019 because of the outbreaks from non vaccinated people.

The measles virus is genetically different than a coronavirus. Mutations in the spikes (which makes it more contagious) for the measles virus does not affect it in the same that it does for something like the flu and COVID.

The measles virus has a complex pathway in the way that in infects the body, mutations have negative effects because of the complexity. The flu and coronavirus are less complex so the mutations have a greater chance of benefiting it which it is almost impossible to eliminate transmission.

You are comparing two different things, as if they are the same. You did same thing by oversimplifying the different aspects of climate change and you were shown to be wrong.

 

[rick81721]

The end of Dec 2020 wasn't at the beginning of the pandemic, which was more like the Mar-May 2020 time frame when the first big spike hit and nobody was vaccinated. That big surge kicked-off operation Warp Speed, and pushed us into "lock-down", social distancing and masking before the vaccine ever really hit the streets early in 2021.

Agreed. Clearly the death rate in the first months was higher. I just looked at the cumulative up to vaccination and then after.

 

[rick81721]

You seem to attack people rather than attacking problems. Interesting.

If questions that inform sound decisions are silly, then what questions should be asked?

Edit: As a scientist you certainly understand the difference between measures of performance and measures of effectiveness. You continue to cite measures of performance. Interested in your view on effectiveness and causality associated with the performance. Will standby.

You're a funny guy - hopefully it's intentional. I think if I posted "the value of pi is approximately 3.14" you would respond "no it isn't, it is 3.14159".

In any event, how on earth is characterizing your questions as silly a personal attack? The issue here is countries donating vaccines to those in need. How anyone can try to argue that is not a good thing is truly mind-boggling.

So here were your questions:

"How many people need it and cannot afford it? What percentage of that does 150 million cover? What is the delta? Regardless to whose responsibility, how will the delta be addressed? What of that is China filling? Where do we prefer China spend their money vice us spending ours? What is the residual risk to Americans after we distribute what we are providing?

Those are strategic level questions that a responsible public would ask of the government."

Be specific here, do you really believe that "we" as Americans need answers to these before our government should donate vaccines? Have you asked these questions? If so, to who and when. If not, why? Should we ask similar questions and demand answers before our government does anything?

Final thought, I hope you realize all these vaccines have a 6 month expiry date. Let's wait for all those answers while 100 million+ doses expire and get thrown out. 50 million people getting fully vaccinated isn't important...

 

[rick81721]

Ok, went and did some homework.
The CDC says that there were 10,262 fully vaccinated people infected from Jan 1 - April 30. As per the link below.
During that same period, the US recorded somewhere near 12.3 million infections.

So roughly 1 vaccinated infection per 1200 (ish) unvaccinated.

Seems the interpretation was fairly accurate.

Edit: Oops, forgot to include the link

EDIT EDIT…
Ok, more investigation shows that the full vaccination rate across that period varied from nearly nothing to about 20% at the end of April.
Probably best that we leave this one to the pros.
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7021e3.htm

I would think the breakthrough rate will be higher now with 1) the delta variant, and 2) immunity starting to wane for the early vaccinated. But anyone trying to argue these vaccines aren't effective are simply wrong.

 

[rick81721]

Sweet Jesus…
Whether or not a letter was drafted or who drafted it has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on whether scientists will investigate the origin of the virus.
The origin is consistent with a virus that has evolved naturally. Yes, it could have been engineered, but, if it was, they went about it the hard way.
This much is known because scientists actually went and did the research, rather than deciding to leave it alone because of some letter that you think supports a “truth”.

The question is, did it escape and if so, was it by accident?

Yes that is the key question. I don't believe this virus was genetically enhanced. Sadly, we will likely never get the answer.

 

[Hobohunter]

Good christ, these vaccines are the most studied vaccines ever. They are about as far away from experimental as they can be.

Thinking otherwise just shows your ignorance and bias.

Do you have a link showing these vaccines as being the most studied ever?

 

[CJJon]

Do you have a link showing these vaccines as being the most studied ever?

It's just common sense. This is a global effort in the modern age, studied around the world, funded with giant gobs of money, China released the genome to everyone very early on so scientists can collaborate, 5.63 Billion doses have been administered thus far.

It truly is unprecedented.

 

[sk47]

It's just common sense. This is a global effort in the modern age, studied around the world, funded with giant gobs of money, China released the genome to everyone very early on so scientists can collaborate, 5.63 Billion doses have been administered thus far.

It truly is unprecedented.

Hello; Egad the breakdown in logic here is dumbfounding.

 

[MaskedRacerX]

Egad the breakdown in logic here is dumbfounding.

Yessir, we have both Moen and Delta, they're on Aisle 35, Bay 5.

 

[RPDBlueMoon]

If only this were true!!!!

You will return to seek the attention you need. I'm 100% sure.

Yep pretty much. This is the 2nd or 3rd time he has said that.

He previously said that the gets annoyed and argues with his wife who watches CNN so it seems like he just comes here to argue and vent. Must be frustrating being all cooped up not having anyone listen to your dumbshit.

He will be back again in a few weeks or days lol (looks like I was wrong it was only a few hours )

 

[Hobohunter]

It's just common sense. This is a global effort in the modern age, studied around the world, funded with giant gobs of money, China released the genome to everyone very early on so scientists can collaborate, 5.63 Billion doses have been administered thus far.

It truly is unprecedented.

I have no doubt that there have been a ton of studies done on these vaccines. Maybe you meant to say they've been the most studied since the start of the pandemic, or in such a short timeframe, but I find it hard to believe they're the most studied ever.
I was hoping you had a link, it's pretty tough to find comparison numbers in studies of these vaccines vs numbers of studies carried out on any other set of vaccines created for other diseases in the past.

 

[GT Pony]

He previously said that the gets annoyed and argues with his wife who watches CNN so it seems like he just comes here to argue and vent. Must be frustrating being all cooped up not having anyone listen to your dumbshit.

 

[rick81721]

I have no doubt that there have been a ton of studies done on these vaccines. Maybe you meant to say they've been the most studied since the start of the pandemic, or in such a short timeframe, but I find it hard to believe they're the most studied ever.
I was hoping you had a link, it's pretty tough to find comparison numbers in studies of these vaccines vs numbers of studies carried out on any other set of vaccines created for other diseases in the past.

I agree a claim of "most studied ever" is hyperbole, but there is no question that the efficacy and safety of these vaccines is extremely well documented.

 

[Hobohunter]

I agree a claim of "most studied ever" is hyperbole, but there is no question that the efficacy and safety of these vaccines is extremely well documented.

No doubt, at least in the short-term. We have yet to see long-term but I'm confident it'll be similar to other vaccines.

Sponsored