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Tuners dissappearing [closed due to politics discussions]

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shogun32

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All for some religion called climate change overpopulation.
The goal is to kill millions of people thru privation, be it via health or economic.
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TeeLew

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I truly wonder what kind of world we are leaving our grandkids. No cars, no A/C no fridges, huge inflation......

All for some religion called climate change.
QFT.
 

ICU812

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Science. It is a shame it is used as a money making, and controlling industry.
The earth has climate cycles every 185 years or so. in a loop.
Most can not be bothered to research anything other than what they are spoon fed.
We just happen to be living At the end of the ice left from the ice age.
Climate change has been happening for millions of years, or where you are standing would still have a mile deep thick layer of ice on it.
Science requires money to fund studies, You think it is easy to buy a government shill, Tell a science dept. you have millions of dollars for their research, but it will require a study outcome that is favorable to the narrative we are selling.
Nothing we do or have done has changed the climate cycle.
But there is money to be had using fear of the sky falling.
Ev's are all about controlling you. They cut the power and you are going nowhere.
Fuel based vehicles have their issues, but at least before a storm I can fill the tank, and fuel cans for extra back up.
ev's. ask anyone that has had the power cut for weeks or more , how an ev would have worked out.
That said.
I would own an ev for my daily IF the price of them was not nuts. 37-43k for a car the size of a vw golf. (chevy bolt)
is just nuts.
What is a loaded Mustang mach-e stickering for?
puff puff pass.
 

ctandc72

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Absolutely not. Natural gas is MILES better because it doesn't leave fly ash, which contains heavy metals and radioactive isotopes. You can't burn the fly ash, so you have to store it somewhere and poison the environment.
Actually that's not totally true. There are many other countries that use coal for power (some countries a lot more than we do) and some of these countries simply don't have the land available for storing coal ash (including fly ash) in landfills or holding ponds. Those countries recycle all of the ash.

Other countries recycle a good bit of coal ash (including fly ash) into other products - including the United States and China.

In fact, 5-6 years ago, about half of all the concrete produced in the United States contained fly ash - up to 40% of the mix - as a substitute for limestone-based Portland cement. Fly ash is also used to make bricks, ceramic tiles and plaster, as a filler in various plastic / steel materials, paint and adhesives and it's used regularly for structural fill in construction.

This recycling has other benefits as well. EPA estimates that for every ton of fly ash used in place of Portland cement approximately 1 ton of CO2 emission are eliminated.

There are actually some benefits to using coal ash in construction materials - it's been reported that using fly ash in highway construction can almost double the life of the road itself.
 

shogun32

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it's been reported that using fly ash in highway construction can almost double the life of the road itself.
which is just one example of 'pat' answers being stupid since they discount or ignore the creativity of people to come to a useful and even beneficial application of 'waste' products. Resorting to gov't force and simple-minded banning is the hallmark of weak uneducated minds who can't see past their nose and abrogate to themselves domain knowledge they don't have. Just wait, this whole EV drum is going to backfire spectacularly in the coming years - in ways the "policy makers" couldn't conceive of. And it'll be up to the unshackled minds of the private sector chasing all that filthy disgusting "money" and profits that will come up with some nifty answers.
 

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Norm Peterson

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I would go easy on her, I would even pity her, if she were in an asylum, where she belongs.
As it is, she's too dangerous for me to feel anything but hatred and contempt for her. :blush:
She's entitled to her opinion, as absolute and retrogressive as it may be.

I dare say she wouldn't even dream of granting me the same courtesy for being entirely willing to stay at least within the spirit of existing emission-control legislation.


Norm
 

Gregs24

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I truly wonder what kind of world we are leaving our grandkids. No cars, no A/C no fridges, huge inflation......

All for some religion called climate change.
Here we go again - extremes.

Nobody is suggesting the banning of any of those - but I suppose the sound bite sounds good if you want to be jingoistic.
 

Gregs24

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Gregs24

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She's entitled to her opinion, as absolute and retrogressive as it may be.

I dare say she wouldn't even dream of granting me the same courtesy for being entirely willing to stay at least within the spirit of existing emission-control legislation.


Norm
That is the issue with her. She is as extreme in her views as some others are about the opposing views and as we know too well from history the extremes never get anywhere.

The world will not end in 50 years, the sky is not falling in, but at the same time we don't have to breathe polluted air and make things worse for ourselves by acting like ostriches. There is a middle way - we just need to look for it.
 

Gregs24

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Science. It is a shame it is used as a money making, and controlling industry.
The earth has climate cycles every 185 years or so. in a loop.
Most can not be bothered to research anything other than what they are spoon fed.
We just happen to be living At the end of the ice left from the ice age.
Climate change has been happening for millions of years, or where you are standing would still have a mile deep thick layer of ice on it.
Science requires money to fund studies, You think it is easy to buy a government shill, Tell a science dept. you have millions of dollars for their research, but it will require a study outcome that is favorable to the narrative we are selling.
Nothing we do or have done has changed the climate cycle.
But there is money to be had using fear of the sky falling.
Ev's are all about controlling you. They cut the power and you are going nowhere.
Fuel based vehicles have their issues, but at least before a storm I can fill the tank, and fuel cans for extra back up.
ev's. ask anyone that has had the power cut for weeks or more , how an ev would have worked out.
That said.
I would own an ev for my daily IF the price of them was not nuts. 37-43k for a car the size of a vw golf. (chevy bolt)
is just nuts.
What is a loaded Mustang mach-e stickering for?
puff puff pass.
The big problem with this is that you are suggesting people who are experts in their fields know less about this than you do. Where do you think the information you research comes from? It comes from people who spend their entire lives working on these subjects, and do you know how they know they are right - when things they do or explain work as predicted. Aeroplanes fly because people understand aerodynamics and apply that knowledge, otherwise we would still be standing on the ground flapping our arms. The knowledge you have gained and used to post above is but one small part of the whole story and climatologists spend their careers researching the subject - they know far more about it than you have learned from them on the internet. I'm inclined to believe them when the vast majority have concerns about future climate.

Irrespective of that, the ice age has nothing to do with PM2.5, PM10, CFC and NOx pollution!

Science doesn't know everything, but importantly it knows it doesn't know everything.
 

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K4fxd

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Nobody is suggesting the banning of any of those
Really, they are banning ICE Doubling or tripling the cost of a refrigerator is effectively banning them to a large segment of our population, Oh wait the Gov will send them a check. Who pays for that?
 

Gregs24

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Really, they are banning ICE Doubling or tripling the cost of a refrigerator is effectively banning them to a large segment of our population, Oh wait the Gov will send them a check. Who pays for that?
Did you read your own link? - it says almost half the fridges made currently already comply and that prices 'may' increase (unlike the sensationalist title which says they will 'cost you a lot more money')

They have been banned in Europe since 2015 and it hasn't caused a sudden loss of chilled food availability. In fact our most recent fridge purchase (2 years ago) was cheaper than the previous one and better.

Try not to be so angry about everything - I'm not goading you here, just suggesting the world is not actually against you with every change or development and you may be better off as a result.
 

shogun32

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Doubling or tripling the cost of a refrigerator is effectively banning them to a large segment of our population
dont' worry. Just like there were free rabbit ears for the poor, there will be 1/3-sized refrigerators and you'll just have to do what all those "down to earth" asians do - hop on their mama-san 'chari' (that's Japanese slang for bicycle) and go shopping every day to the local supermarket about 6-8 blocks away where you buy just enough food for dinner and breakfast. We'll have eliminated the VASTLY more expensive problem/drain of social resources that is obesity and cardiovascular disease.
 

TeeLew

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The big problem with this is that you are suggesting people who are experts in their fields know less about this than you do.

Science doesn't know everything, but importantly it knows it doesn't know everything.
1. Incorrect. I suggest people who are experts in their field are cherry-picking data and making catastrophic predictions to advance political agendas.

That's an entirely different claim.

2. Your final statement is optimistic to the point foolish. "Trust the Science" is the refrain of those who don't understand how maddeningly difficult it is to produce legitimate scientific research. Further, we aren't being asked to believe actual measured data. We're being asked to believe computerized prophets of doom which are programmed by all too fallible humans. I don't know how much simulation work you've done, but defining the boundary conditions is incredibly difficult and will absolutely be biased in the direction of those doing the programming.

If Climate Scientists were honest, we could have a reasoned discussion about what is actually happening and what the correct response should be. They're anything but. The claim "The science is settled" belies any science I've ever know. Science is _never_ settled, that's reserved for the realm of dictators and religion.
 
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