Throttle House puts the 2020 GT500, Camaro ZL1 and Challenger Hellcat Redeye on the track

[Minn19]

Now that you’re done being a bitter old woman, let’s get back to the actual gist, which is - let’s see a good driver who is motivated to get good performance behind the wheel of the gt500

don’t trot out tired ol Camaro Randy every single time.

randy can even drive the Camaro he lives so much.

but put billy Johnson in the Mustang.

you’re going to see drastically better numbers.
Don’t forget to have actual tread on the Gt500 tires either.

important:


Also, with some cars being loaners from owners, it begs the question - what tuning was done to the loaner car? In a culture where people define their own meaning of “stock,” what accountability testing is done to prove that the cars are legitimately stock? This includes vehicle wright, tire make and model, engine calibration/tuning, irk stock suspension components and rear end gearing, bolt on parts, etc.

This cannot he understated.

when the cars are provided by owners who rarely ever keep them stock, but one is provided by the OEM as stock as can be, you’re not going to have a true comparison without accountability testing.

so it may well be a stock gt500 with thrashed tires vs. modified competitors.

but at the absolute very least, the tires killed this car.

I mean if the tires are such a big difference that they went out of their way to modify the 1le with better tires vs the pp2 GT to show the big difference that not only tires in good condition make, but the type of tire, then they went out of their way to skew this year by running a severely handicapped gt500 which had tires in poor condition.thats really just inexcusable. And that’s not even getting into tajing parts of the track package OFF the car...

But hey, they laugh and marvel and joke and get their purposely skewed results that damage the superior cars reputation in the marketplace, but hey “we are red blooded car guys driving fast cars, so we all win. Haha!” Or some other nonsense.

It was a failure of a comparison. you don’t put a handicapped car in a head to head comparison and have anywhere near accurate representation.

@BillyJRacing what do you think of Randy P in reference to posts like these and the accusations that he purposefully sandbags Fords in every test he does?

Your name gets thrown out a lot around here so maybe your thoughts on the matter will be helpful.

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[millhouse]

@BillyJRacing what do you think of Randy P in reference to posts like these and the accusations that he purposefully sandbags Fords in every test he does?

Your name gets thrown out a lot around here so maybe your thoughts on the matter will be helpful.

I'll be surprised if he responds again in this thread. He's like a GT500 Jedi....when there is a disturbance in the force, he can sense it. And then...he's gone.

 

[Minn19]

I'll be surprised if he responds again in this thread. He's like a GT500 Jedi....when there is a disturbance in the force, he can sense it. And then...he's gone.

The racing community is a pretty small one so I'm guessing they have crossed paths. It's worth a shot and may be the only thing that gets through to some here about the subject.

 

[Boss2013]

Presenting the IAB (Internet Action Badge) awarded to all those who have never had their car on a track of any kind but are experts on which vehicle is the best for a given venue.

 

[Bangarang]

I'll be surprised if he responds again in this thread. He's like a GT500 Jedi....when there is a disturbance in the force, he can sense it. And then...he's gone.

 

[Classic Lover]

Criticisms of the legitimate shortcomings of the Camaro does not a fanboy/hater make. They're real, they cost GM sales, and they're dumb shortcomings because they are purely there because of styling decisions, not engineering ones.

Being critical is a good thing and by all means be that, however be critical of all cars and you will be in a much better place. Let me be clear I am not a Camaro fan, I have no plan on ever owning one and I think for the most part the new ones lack any real classic looks and will be very dated in 10 years. That’s being critical, not being a hater.

 

[Classic Lover]

What’s the big deal guys? Randy himself said the gt500 would have won on fresh tires. Not one clear thinking car guy thinks the ZL1 1LE is faster on a bigger track than the CFTP. That being said let’s be critical of the gt500 like you are of the 1LE, one word weight, too much weight. All the mass really does wear out tires quickly, and I don’t know how much those cup2s cost but I’m guessing it’s a quite a bit. I think on a really big track like say the Nurburgring the times between these cars will be close, simply because the gt500 will have worn out its tires by the end on that long of a track.

 

[millhouse]

What’s the big deal guys? Randy himself said the gt500 would have won on fresh tires. Not one clear thinking car guy thinks the ZL1 1LE is faster on a bigger track than the CFTP. That being said let’s be critical of the gt500 like you are of the 1LE, one word weight, too much weight. All the mass really does wear out tires quickly, and I don’t know how much those cup2s cost but I’m guessing it’s a quite a bit. I think on a really big track like say the Nurburgring the times between these cars will be close, simply because the gt500 will have worn out its tires by the end on that long of a track.

It's funny, all of the folks on the camaro forums think that the tires on the GT500 were a non-issue, and ignore Randy flat out saying the GT500 would have been faster on a fresh set.

It's also worth saying that the tire on the ZLE were formulated to be consistent...and not be a one lap wonder (they specifically mention the SC2 tires in this regard). The ZLE isn't that much lighter than the GT500. I fully believe it's tires to be superior both in initial grip and in longevity. This is not to be understated. GM pulled a rabbit out of their hat with those tires.

 

[BmacIL]

Being critical is a good thing and by all means be that, however be critical of all cars and you will be in a much better place. Let me be clear I am not a Camaro fan, I have no plan on ever owning one and I think for the most part the new ones lack any real classic looks and will be very dated in 10 years. That’s being critical, not being a hater.

I'm far from blind to the Mustang's shortcomings (there are many).

 

[Traind]

These guys don't have the money to put brand new rubber on all 3 cars. Ford supplied the GT500 for them to use.

I agree though, this kind of comparison should really have 2-3 new sets of tires for each car. Problem is, someone has to spend the money to do so.

Really it just requires the car arrive with one set of new tires on it. If they do timed laps, they do those before any drifting, burnouts etc. Did Ford know they were going to do timed laps with a pro driver? If so, shame on them for not delivering it with new tires. Big Willow is definitely a horsepower track and one the GT500 should shine on vs. ZL1LE, which is a tough competitor on tracks with fewer long straights.

 

[Minn19]

It's funny, all of the folks on the camaro forums think that the tires on the GT500 were a non-issue, and ignore Randy flat out saying the GT500 would have been faster on a fresh set.

It's also worth saying that the tire on the ZLE were formulated to be consistent...and not be a one lap wonder (they specifically mention the SC2 tires in this regard). The ZLE isn't that much lighter than the GT500. I fully believe it's tires to be superior both in initial grip and in longevity. This is not to be understated. GM pulled a rabbit out of their hat with those tires.

Ford could of done the same thing in regards to the tires.

The ZLE is not light, but a couple of hundred pounds isn't insignificant. As you know, many people spend quite a bit of $$$$ to dump that much weight. I believe I read @Tomster is doing just that.

 

[JohnnyUtah]

Now that you’re done being a bitter old woman, let’s get back to the actual gist, which is - let’s see a good driver who is motivated to get good performance behind the wheel of the gt500

don’t trot out tired ol Camaro Randy every single time.

randy can even drive the Camaro he lives so much.

but put billy Johnson in the Mustang.

you’re going to see drastically better numbers.
Don’t forget to have actual tread on the Gt500 tires either.

important:


Also, with some cars being loaners from owners, it begs the question - what tuning was done to the loaner car? In a culture where people define their own meaning of “stock,” what accountability testing is done to prove that the cars are legitimately stock? This includes vehicle wright, tire make and model, engine calibration/tuning, irk stock suspension components and rear end gearing, bolt on parts, etc.

This cannot he understated.

when the cars are provided by owners who rarely ever keep them stock, but one is provided by the OEM as stock as can be, you’re not going to have a true comparison without accountability testing.

so it may well be a stock gt500 with thrashed tires vs. modified competitors.

but at the absolute very least, the tires killed this car.

I mean if the tires are such a big difference that they went out of their way to modify the 1le with better tires vs the pp2 GT to show the big difference that not only tires in good condition make, but the type of tire, then they went out of their way to skew this year by running a severely handicapped gt500 which had tires in poor condition.thats really just inexcusable. And that’s not even getting into tajing parts of the track package OFF the car...

But hey, they laugh and marvel and joke and get their purposely skewed results that damage the superior cars reputation in the marketplace, but hey “we are red blooded car guys driving fast cars, so we all win. Haha!” Or some other nonsense.

It was a failure of a comparison. you don’t put a handicapped car in a head to head comparison and have anywhere near accurate representation.

This is why the car community deserves you, prognosticator of fair-balanced car tests, wearer of the IAB badge.

Henceforth, you will be assigned to oversee all performance car tests to ensure that Mustang6g's honor is kept. You'll be like a congressional oversight committee of one... representing all of our best interests, so that we can put faith in all youtube reviews.

I will vote for you because you will clearly put in the time and effort to ensure that no stone is left unturned. No lug is left un-torqued. No tire is touched prior to the driver of your choice getting behind the wheel.

 

[millhouse]

Really it just requires the car arrive with one set of new tires on it. If they do timed laps, they do those before any drifting, burnouts etc. Did Ford know they were going to do timed laps with a pro driver? If so, shame on them for not delivering it with new tires. Big Willow is definitely a horsepower track and one the GT500 should shine on vs. ZL1LE, which is a tough competitor on tracks with fewer long straights.

I think the conversation with Ford went something like this....

Throttle House:
Hey Ford, we're a kick ass youtube channel that reviews cars. Can we have one of your kick ass GT500's for review and testing?

Ford:
Who?

We're throttle house, we're a kick ass youtube channel that reviews cars.

Ford:
Who?

Throttle House:
We're....Do you know Jason Cammisa?

Ford:
Oh, we love Jason Cammisa! Do you know him too?

Throttle House:
Mother FuC&#$S

Ford:
What was that?

Throttle House:
Jason Cammisa want's to drive the GT500 CFTP.

Ford:
Oh, sure...no problem.

Throttle House:
When can we get one?

Ford:
Well, some other you-tuber named Ken Block just got done testing it out. Should still be in great condition. We'll send it right over.

Click.

 

[MaskedRacerX]

Throttle House:
We're....Do you know Jason Cammisa?

Ford:
Oh, we love Jason Cammisa! Do you know him too?

Throttle House:
Mother FuC&#$S

JFC, hahahaha !!!

 

[Hack]

What’s the big deal guys? Randy himself said the gt500 would have won on fresh tires. Not one clear thinking car guy thinks the ZL1 1LE is faster on a bigger track than the CFTP. That being said let’s be critical of the gt500 like you are of the 1LE, one word weight, too much weight. All the mass really does wear out tires quickly, and I don’t know how much those cup2s cost but I’m guessing it’s a quite a bit. I think on a really big track like say the Nurburgring the times between these cars will be close, simply because the gt500 will have worn out its tires by the end on that long of a track.

The weight difference is generally overstated. It's like having a passenger in the car versus not. The weight difference isn't like the weight difference between my Z06 and the ZL1 1LE. Now THAT is a major weight difference that really matters and you can certainly feel the change in performance between a 3100 lb car and a 3800 lb car.

Ford could of done the same thing in regards to the tires.

The ZLE is not light, but a couple of hundred pounds isn't insignificant. As you know, many people spend quite a bit of $$$$ to dump that much weight. I believe I read @Tomster is doing just that.

Right it isn't insignificant if you are Randy P. and if everything else is equal. But very few of us will notice or run actual faster lap times due to a couple hundred pounds weight difference.

And power to weight is what you will really notice in a car.

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