C8 just got crushed and humiliated by the GT500

[9secondko]

I think the tires the manufacturer chooses to put on give a good indication of the cars intent. The GT350 previously wore MPSS and now sport cup 2's. Both (gt350 and gt350r) could be considered track cars as they both (now) come equipped with full compliments of cooling. That wasn't always the case though.

The ZL1, C8 and base GT500 all share similar compound tires (although I do believe the ZL1's tires are a bit superior for track duty). All 3 in my opinion are more street oriented...although at this point, all are also quite track capable.

From what I see, more Ford guys are considering this to be an ass whooping with similarly equipped (and priced) vehicles. Yes, the C8 took the 0-60 and 1/4 mile times, but we all know what each is truly capable of. The GM folks seem to see this as a moral victory. I personally don't get it, as both are similarly priced...but I'm probably on the Ford biased side a bit.

And for the record, I think the "track" tweaks GM did to the vehicle chassis and suspension is complete bullshit. Not many people are going to track these cars, and even less are going to spend the time trying to eff with the chassis to get it perfect for an individual track. You need to do a re-alignment in the pits after your done on the track...not going to be fun to do in the dark when the track is closed.

great post. And agreed on the 1/4 mile times. The 500 has slready been proven ad nsuseum as far superior to what Randy put up. That’s one reason why I hold that both the base and cftp have an even greater performance lead over the c8 than motor trend is showing.

funny also that they wanted to show the base 500 to bring down the hype a bit. But only showed the best version of the c8. No bias there. LOL

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[Laststandard]

And for the record, I think the "track" tweaks GM did to the vehicle chassis and suspension is complete bullshit. Not many people are going to track these cars, and even less are going to spend the time trying to eff with the chassis to get it perfect for an individual track. You need to do a re-alignment in the pits after your done on the track...not going to be fun to do in the dark when the track is closed.

Not enough negative camber at the track will kill tires much more quickly than -2.5 to -3* camber will kill tires on the street. Besides, negative camber doesn't wear tires out nearly as much as toe in / out will. GM's track alignment is generally just more negative camber, still 0 toe. No one is aligning the cars in the pits for an HPDE.. if you have all the tools to do a proper pit alignment you probably also have a trailer for the car.

Besides, all Corvettes and Camaros allow this adjustment out of the box. No need to buy extra parts like the base S550 chassis. I think (correct me if I'm wrong) even the GT350 needs camber bolts or the front struts slotted to get any camber for the track. Don't know on the base GT500. GT350R and GT500 CFTP come with camber plates.

Killer times by the GT500. Can't wait to see more!

 

[millhouse]

Just commenting on the bold part, since I’m totally on board with the rest. I think the need for making the camber adjustment to get the most out of the Stingray on the track is a reason it should be considered track capable, not track focused. I expect Z06 / Grand Sport will be more aggressively calibrated and won’t need these types of adjustment. But I do think that those adjustments will still be available even in those cars. Even my car has a section in the owners manual that describes optimal settings for tracking the car. I just don’t bother to do it. Difference is, with my car, I’d have to take it to a garage or shop qualified to make the adjustments. With C8, the ability for the owner to adjust is built in. I’m not sure if the ZL1-1LE has owner adjustable suspension. If not, then C8 would be the first.

Maybe I'm wrong, but according to this.... https://www.hagerty.com/articles-vi...n-adjustability-is-a-dream-for-track-hopefuls

"Making such adjustments would require a set of alignment tools, but it would not require any aftermarket links, sleeves, or camber plates."

C8 owners will need to re-do their alignment...and will need alignment tools to do so. So while yes, they can use regular tools to adjust, they will need specialty tools to get their cars back to street friendly alignments. This is most certainly only going to be done by those who are the most seasoned and savvy.

99.9% of people will not be adjusting the suspension on the base C8...because you're right, it's not a track oriented vehicle. Looking at those track times again, the realistic delta between the C8 and GT500, the one where 99.9% of people will simply roll up off the street and maybe adjust tire pressure adds an additional 1.77 seconds to the lap time. 3 seconds as both roll of the assembly line is a more realistic number.

Not enough negative camber at the track will kill tires much more quickly than -2.5 to -3* camber will kill tires on the street. Besides, negative camber doesn't wear tires out nearly as much as toe in / out will. GM's track alignment is generally just more negative camber, still 0 toe. No one is aligning the cars in the pits for an HPDE.. if you have all the tools to do a proper pit alignment you probably also have a trailer for the car.

Besides, all Corvettes and Camaros allow this adjustment out of the box. No need to buy extra parts like the base S550 chassis. I think (correct me if I'm wrong) even the GT350 needs camber bolts or the front struts slotted to get any camber for the track. Don't know on the base GT500. GT350R and GT500 CFTP come with camber plates.

Killer times by the GT500. Can't wait to see more!

Too much camber absolutely will wreck tires...in a hurry. My BMW had quite a bit of negative camber and wrecked tires...both front an rear.

Adjusting camber requires some type of alignment tools. I haven't done it in quite a while, perhaps they offer add-ons for cell phones now to get the proper angle. Proper tools aren't expensive, but they are most definitely required.

Regardless, almost none with their base C8's are going to be doing this. Martin is right, these aren't track vehicles...and the people that would likely do the adjustments are holding out for the track oriented corvette packages.

 

[svttim]

Just commenting on the bold part, since I’m totally on board with the rest. I think the need for making the camber adjustment to get the most out of the Stingray on the track is a reason it should be considered track capable, not track focused. I expect Z06 / Grand Sport will be more aggressively calibrated and won’t need these types of adjustment. But I do think that those adjustments will still be available even in those cars. Even my car has a section in the owners manual that describes optimal settings for tracking the car. I just don’t bother to do it. Difference is, with my car, I’d have to take it to a garage or shop qualified to make the adjustments. With C8, the ability for the owner to adjust is built in. I’m not sure if the ZL1-1LE has owner adjustable suspension. If not, then C8 would be the first.

The 350's have the same adjustments and no mater the car, you have to have alignment tools. So, The Vette should have remained in a street alignment or, the GT500 should have been adjusted, That's the problem with some automotive journalists

 

[JohnnyUtah]

Classic that the 500 beats the Vette handily but somehow on this forum Motortrend is still sandbagging the 500 and is chevy trend. It should have beat it by more!

The same mag that sings the praises of the GT350 is secretly out to get the Mustang.

It's just never enough. Funny.

 

[millhouse]

The 350's have the same adjustments and no mater the car, you have to have alignment tools. So, The Vette should have remained in a street alignment or, the GT500 should have been adjusted, That's the problem with some automotive journalists

If I had to guess, GM likely conditioned the use of the C8 on fully adjusting the suspension. It sounds like Ford was there too (notice the break bleeding comments), but my guess is they were quite happy to otherwise leave it as-is. It's a testament to how much of a daily driver these GT500's can be.

 

[Hack]

If I had to guess, GM likely conditioned the use of the C8 on fully adjusting the suspension. It sounds like Ford was there too (notice the break bleeding comments), but my guess is they were quite happy to otherwise leave it as-is. It's a testament to how much of a daily driver these GT500's can be.

The same is true of the GT350. It's always fun leaving a track day - people with the super sticky tires and dedicated "race car" setups are busy working in their trailer - and I would just jump in the car and drive off.

 

[svttim]

Classic that the 500 beats the Vette handily but somehow on this forum Motortrend is still sandbagging the 500 and is chevy trend. It should have beat it by more!

The same mag that sings the praises of the GT350 is secretly out to get the Mustang.

It's just never enough. Funny.

Just saying, do a head to head test, keep it all the same. Is that too hard?

 

[JohnnyUtah]

Just saying, do a head to head test, keep it all the same. Is that too hard?

Is there a reason to think that the GT500 didn't have its camber adjusted properly?

I got my camber adjusted to max negative before any track days. Its standard procedure, particularly with a heavy car that torches sidewalls.

Just funny that it won, yet somehow it was still unfair.

 

[Hack]

Is there a reason to think that the GT500 didn't have its camber adjusted properly?

I got my camber adjusted to max negative before any track days. Its standard procedure, particularly with a heavy car that torches sidewalls.

Just funny that it won, yet somehow it was still unfair.

I don't think he was really saying it was unfair, because Motor Trend was very transparent about what they did. However, he pointed out that the C8 got a special track alignment. The GT500 didn't.

I'm a little surprised they didn't put some Cup 2s or racing slicks on the C8. The C8 might have made up the 3 or 4 seconds on the base GT500 that way.

 

[DekiDoo]

Is there a reason to think that the GT500 didn't have its camber adjusted properly?

I got my camber adjusted to max negative before any track days. Its standard procedure, particularly with a heavy car that torches sidewalls.

Just funny that it won, yet somehow it was still unfair.

I run -1.7 on my PP GT, and tires are just fine. That's the max I could do without modification. I dont think people realize that camber doesnt destroy tires, its the toe. And what are the basic setting on the Track Handling package? How much adjustment is offered? I'm genuinely curious as I dont know. I know car and driver tested one and they said the Track Handling pack causes the car to trendline more, so im keen to think that more negative camber is set from the factory, but I have no data to verify it with.

 

[9secondko]

Color me impressed that even the base GT500 bested the Z51 C8 on track. That's amazing.


And I see the C8 did better in acceleration tests, but that's a given with the engine lay out on a non prepped surface. That trap speed difference is huge. I'm honestly shocked even more that the CFTP is almost 4 seconds faster as well. Granted that's a track that favors power, but wow, that's impressive. Still a long ways off the ZLE lap time though, unless they ran a different configuration for this test.

This is the only place. Somethings up though. When regular ol drivers get multiple sub 10s and pro racer Randy gets a half sec to near full sec slower times, you know it’s not a sincere effort.

The 500 is faster in a straight line and a road course. It’s just the better sports car.

 

[9secondko]

I don't think he was really saying it was unfair, because Motor Trend was very transparent about what they did. However, he pointed out that the C8 got a special track alignment. The GT500 didn't.

I'm a little surprised they didn't put some Cup 2s or racing slicks on the C8. The C8 might have made up the 3 or 4 seconds on the base GT500 that way.

Of course they didn’t treat the 500 fairly. Can you imagine an apples to apples? The Vette wouldn’t sell. If they adjusted the 500 like that, the disparity would be ridiculous.

 

[DekiDoo]

This is the only place. Somethings up though. When regular ol drivers get multiple sub 10s and pro racer Randy gets a half sec to near full sec slower times, you know it’s not a sincere effort.

The 500 is faster in a straight line and a road course. It’s just the better sports car.

I think because they did it on a non prepped surface. That trap speed speaks volumes though, 13xmph vs 12xmph is huge. It's the difference between a GT and an EcoBoost.

Of course they didn’t treat the 500 fairly. Can you imagine an apples to apples? The Vette wouldn’t sell. If they adjusted the 500 like that, the disparity would be ridiculous.

I think what another member was asking, and my question a few posts up is the same, what is the camber adjustment on the Track Handling pack on the base car? Is it already set at -2 or whatever they can go up to? The only thing I remember reading was Car and Driver I believe tested the THP on a GT350 and they said it tram lined more than a nonTHP car, but paid off on track.

 

[9secondko]

I think because they did it on a non prepped surface. That trap speed speaks volumes though, 13xmph vs 12xmph is huge. It's the difference between a GT and an EcoBoost.




I think what another member was asking, and my question a few posts up is the same, what is the camber adjustment on the Track Handling pack on the base car? Is it already set at -2 or whatever they can go up to? The only thing I remember reading was Car and Driver I believe tested the THP on a GT350 and they said it tram lined more than a nonTHP car, but paid off on track.

I don’t think that’s it. The 500 grips even on a regular ol asphalt street. A YouTube at the Nevada event took the car out on regular streets and ripped a 3.3 0-60. It’s more than just the surface. This 500 puts the power down. It’s a game. Changer as for as what mustangs are known for.

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